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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> Newsgroups: sci.logic Subject: Re: Formal systems that cannot possibly be incomplete except for unknowns and unknowable Date: Mon, 5 May 2025 10:39:56 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 35 Message-ID: <vvam4d$o6v5$3@dont-email.me> References: <vv97ft$3fg66$1@dont-email.me> <vva1ls$6uhv$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Mon, 05 May 2025 17:39:57 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="0a6320ec149f030cd98ca15e4d2d5e5f"; logging-data="793573"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19STYDf8KrNFPAKjbS90nyB" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:Fr6uvbxR1wscB2htQK1BLnIUrjM= X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250505-2, 5/5/2025), Outbound message In-Reply-To: <vva1ls$6uhv$1@dont-email.me> Bytes: 2589 On 5/5/2025 4:50 AM, Mikko wrote: > On 2025-05-05 02:23:56 +0000, olcott said: > >> When we define formal systems as a finite list of basic facts and >> allow semantic logical entailment as the only rule of inference we >> have systems that can express any truth that can be expressed in >> language. >> >> Also with such systems Undecidability is impossible. The only >> incompleteness are things that are unknown or unknowable. > > A formal system has a formal language. Unless the language is too > restricted for most interesting purposes the negation of every > sentence is another sentence. In a consistent system some sentence > is unprovable. If the negation of that system is also unprovable > then the system is incomplete. > My system skips merely "provable" and goes directly to "provably true". Expressions such as "This sentence is not true" and its negation are not provably true, thus rejected as semantically unsound. > None of the features of specified above prevents an expressible unprovable > sentence that has an unprovable negation. While adding one of the pair > to the basic facts there is nothing to prevent an infinite set of such > pairs. > Basic facts are stipulated to be a finite set of general knowledge of the world. -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer