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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Two computer science professors agree with Flibble
Date: Mon, 5 May 2025 20:31:57 -0500
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On 5/5/2025 8:16 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 5/4/25 11:10 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/4/2025 10:00 PM, dbush wrote:
>>> On 5/4/2025 9:38 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 5/4/2025 8:13 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>> Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 04/05/2025 23:34, Mr Flibble wrote:
>>>>>>> The function is neither computable nor incomputable because there 
>>>>>>> is no
>>>>>>> function at all, just a category error.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a point of view.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a point of view only in the sense that there is no opinion so 
>>>>> daft
>>>>> that it's not someone's point of view.  The technical-sounding waffle
>>>>> about it being a "category error" is simply addressed by asking where
>>>>> the supposed category error is in other perfectly straightforward
>>>>> undecidable problems.  For example, whether or not a context-free
>>>>> grammar is ambiguous or not, or the very simple to pose Post
>>>>> correspondence problem.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Flibble IS CORRECT when the halting problem is defined
>>>> to be isomorphic (AKA analogous) to the Liar Paradox:
>>>> "This sentence is not true".
>>>>
>>>> When the Halting Problem is defined as an input that
>>>> does the opposite of whatever its decider reports
>>>> then both Boolean return values are incorrect 
>>>
>>> False.  One value is correct and one is incorrect.
>>>
>>
>> Both Boolean RETURN VALUES FROM H *ARE* INCORRECT,
>> Even though D halts or fails to halt.
> 
> No, the given H can only return one of the values.
> 
> The other one is correct.
> 
>>
>> The linguistic context of WHO IS ASKED is an essential
>> part of the question.
> 
> No, because H^ has the same behavior to all deciders, it only makes H 
> wrong, as it behaves the opposite of whichever is the one answer that H 
> gives.
> 
>>
>> Math and Comp Sci people that are clueless about these
>> details of how language actually works think that they
>> can get away with ignoring a crucial part of the actual
>> question.
> 
> No, you are clueless as to the requirements of H being a program / fixed 
> algorithm.
> 

That is NOT what professor Sipser agreed to.

<MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
     If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
     until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
     stop running unless aborted then

*would never stop running unless aborted*
is one actual input and the hypothetical
HHH/DD that never aborts.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer