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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Halting Problem: What Constitutes Pathological Input Date: Mon, 5 May 2025 23:08:33 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 113 Message-ID: <vvc201$24i9i$1@dont-email.me> References: <GE4SP.47558$VBab.42930@fx08.ams4> <vvb43f$15u5b$4@dont-email.me> <vvb4ok$o4v0$9@dont-email.me> <vvb52g$15u5b$6@dont-email.me> <vvb5ca$o4v0$10@dont-email.me> <vvb5vp$15u5b$7@dont-email.me> <vvb675$o4v0$11@dont-email.me> <vvb9d7$1av94$3@dont-email.me> <vvbani$1b6l1$1@dont-email.me> <vvbb6s$1av94$4@dont-email.me> <vvbcb3$1b6l1$2@dont-email.me> <vvbe0j$1av94$8@dont-email.me> <vvbecc$1b6l1$6@dont-email.me> <vvbhk0$1ijna$1@dont-email.me> <vvbjjg$1kegb$1@dont-email.me> <vvbk93$1l4cf$1@dont-email.me> <vvbkft$1kegb$4@dont-email.me> <vvbl71$1ljaj$1@dont-email.me> <vvbma3$1kegb$5@dont-email.me> <vvbmp0$1ljaj$2@dont-email.me> <vvbqd5$1tr5o$1@dont-email.me> <vvbrha$1us1f$1@dont-email.me> <vvbs2s$1tr5o$2@dont-email.me> <vvbtfh$20bmu$1@dont-email.me> <vvbtos$1tr5o$3@dont-email.me> <vvbu94$20bmu$2@dont-email.me> <vvbuv1$1tr5o$4@dont-email.me> <vvc088$20bmu$3@dont-email.me> <vvc0j8$1tr5o$5@dont-email.me> <vvc0ts$23ln3$1@dont-email.me> <vvc11j$1tr5o$6@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Tue, 06 May 2025 06:08:33 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="4d3877b25e07ae675aebb853b858fd37"; logging-data="2246962"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+vl/Z1WOHKBKeoyKkZoR6U" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:zdf2frWBfePyG5PSzuL1LtBHNn8= Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250505-6, 5/5/2025), Outbound message In-Reply-To: <vvc11j$1tr5o$6@dont-email.me> X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Bytes: 6029 On 5/5/2025 10:52 PM, dbush wrote: > On 5/5/2025 11:50 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 5/5/2025 10:44 PM, dbush wrote: >>> On 5/5/2025 11:38 PM, olcott wrote: >>>> On 5/5/2025 10:16 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>> On 5/5/2025 11:05 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>> On 5/5/2025 9:56 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>> On 5/5/2025 10:51 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>> On 5/5/2025 9:27 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 5/5/2025 10:18 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 5/5/2025 8:59 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/5/2025 8:57 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/5/2025 7:49 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which starts with the assumption that an algorithm exists >>>>>>>>>>>>> that performs the following mapping: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Given any algorithm (i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of >>>>>>>>>>>>> instructions) X described as <X> with input Y: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> A solution to the halting problem is an algorithm H that >>>>>>>>>>>>> computes the following mapping: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed >>>>>>>>>>>>> directly >>>>>>>>>>>>> (<X>,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when >>>>>>>>>>>>> executed directly >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> DO COMPUTE THAT THE INPUT IS NON-HALTING >>>>>>>>>>>>>> IFF (if and only if) the mapping FROM INPUTS >>>>>>>>>>>>>> IS COMPUTED. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> i.e. it is found to map something other than the above >>>>>>>>>>>>> function which is a contradiction. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The above function VIOLATES COMPUTER SCIENCE. >>>>>>>>>>>> You make no attempt to show how my claim >>>>>>>>>>>> THAT IT VIOLATES COMPUTER SCIENCE IS INCORRECT >>>>>>>>>>>> you simply take that same quote from a computer >>>>>>>>>>>> science textbook as the infallible word-of-God. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> All you are doing is showing that you don't understand proof >>>>>>>>>>> by contradiction, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Not at all. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The mapping is well defined. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You don't even know that "well defined" means >>>>>>>> that all of the steps have been specified. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A mapping doesn't *have* steps. It's simply an association >>>>>>> between an input domain and an output domain. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Computing the mapping does > have 100% totally specific steps >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So you're assuming an algorithm exists that can compute the below >>>>> mapping. >>>>> >>>> >>>> No the mapping below is stupidly wrong. >>> >>> Not at all. >>> >>> I want to know if any arbitrary algorithm X with input Y will halt >>> when executed directly. >>> >> >> What are ALL of the steps to determine that for HHH(DD) ? > > In other words, you're assuming that the halting function is computable. > If you don't even know ALL of what computable means you will not be able to provide these steps. _DD() [00002133] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping [00002134] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping [00002136] 51 push ecx ; make space for local [00002137] 6833210000 push 00002133 ; push DD [0000213c] e882f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DD) [00002141] 83c404 add esp,+04 [00002144] 8945fc mov [ebp-04],eax [00002147] 837dfc00 cmp dword [ebp-04],+00 [0000214b] 7402 jz 0000214f [0000214d] ebfe jmp 0000214d [0000214f] 8b45fc mov eax,[ebp-04] [00002152] 8be5 mov esp,ebp [00002154] 5d pop ebp [00002155] c3 ret Size in bytes:(0035) [00002155] > We then reach a contradiction, Exactly what steps lead to a contradiction, don't leave an y gaps or vagueness. So my assumption is correct you know nothing about programming. -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer