Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Case Insensitive File Systems -- Torvalds Hates Them
Date: Wed, 7 May 2025 12:17:40 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <vvffgk$vskt$2@dont-email.me>
References: <pan$4068a$3910f4f1$8cbecede$9e42905e@linux.rocks>
 <20250428111242.00007426@gmail.com>
 <pan$c046d$e87ef491$a3427b7a$ac576dbc@linux.rocks>
 <slrn1011nu8.46v.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh> <vurjl9$2pskn$1@dont-email.me>
 <slrn1013t50.1aev.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh>
 <vAGdnR-Fj9qGS4_1nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com>
 <slrn1016uic.2qk.rotflol2@geidiprime.bvh> <m7hgt7F8mvgU5@mid.individual.net>
 <6813f997@news.ausics.net> <vvbe5q$1em7m$1@dont-email.me>
 <68194581@news.ausics.net> <vvbook$1oubc$1@dont-email.me>
 <681aa121@news.ausics.net> <wwvcyckspu8.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>
 <3aorelxelu.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 07 May 2025 13:17:41 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="7ce086d2f75924ae5766c589640c187d";
	logging-data="1045149"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/c1aOwK6iQWH1gy0NVPB3Zip3m6bdlyBc="
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:7Z6qaniCVq34hWD+IbVRg2P3gtk=
In-Reply-To: <3aorelxelu.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
Content-Language: en-GB

On 07/05/2025 11:12, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-05-07 12:00, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>> not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) writes:
>>> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> It could have been the same with ext* forbidding newlines (also tmpfs
>>>>> etc.).  Then you'd only have to worry about handling newlines in the
>>>>> rare case of reading from some non-Linux filesystems like UFS.
>>>>
>>>> Could ext* have forbade newlines?  Yes.  But that would have gone
>>>> against years of Unix tradition at the time had it done so.  Since
>>>> Linux began as a "clone of Unix" it was only natural for it to inherit
>>>> Unix traditions as to filenames (any byte value other than ASCII NULL
>>>> and ASCII forward slash being allowed).
>>>
>>> Well the original quote from Torvalds was about case insensitive
>>> filesystems, which also already have a tradition, but he doesn't
>>> like them, with good reasons. I feel there are valid reasons to
>>> dislike newlines in filenames too. Maybe that would have been too
>>> radical for a UNIX-based OS filesystem, but in practice I can't see
>>> how it would have caused much trouble, and it would have avoided
>>> needing lots of special handling for newlines in software.
>>
>> Forbidding newlines in extfs and its successors would be straightforward
>> indeed - no harder than forbidding ‘/’ in filenames. But as well as
>> swimming against the Unix tide it wouldn’t actually eliminate the
>> higher-level problem that shell copes badly with filenames with spaces,
>> newlines, etc, since there’s more to life than Linux’s native
>> filesystem. Early versions of Linux used the Minix filesystem, and today
>> the kernel includes a large collection of ‘foreign’ filesystems.
>>
>> Using almost any other language than shell, on the other hand, makes the
>> problem go away.
> 
> Except if you hardcode a filename inside a C program, for instance. You 
> still have to escape the quotes.
> 
That's a different issue: The solution is to construct the name as an 
octal character array.

-- 
The higher up the mountainside
The greener grows the grass.
The higher up the monkey climbs
The more he shows his arse.

Traditional