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From: Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Montana: "Let's make stupidity mandatory!"
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2025 04:23:32 -0500
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On Thu, 16 Jan 2025 10:36:12 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 21:54:51 -0500, Frank Krygowski
><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>On 1/15/2025 9:18 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 10:51:19 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/14/2025 7:30 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One thing that it is important to remember is that in a conflict
>>>>>> between a bicycle and a auto the auto nearly always wins :-(
>>>>>> There is even a poem, dating from the early 1900's:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       Here lies the body Of William Jay,
>>>>>>       Who died maintaining His right of way.
>>>>>>       He was in the right As he sped along,
>>>>>>       But he's just as dead As if he'd been wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a cute little poem, but like "always pretend you're invisible," its
>>>>> useless as practical advice for a bicyclist.
>>>>>
>>>>> A bicyclist who never used his right of way would be unable to
>>>>> practically ride anywhere except on totally isolated bike paths.
>>> 
>>> The problem isn't whether you use a "right of way" it is what happens
>>> if the auto, truck, whatever, doesn't see you or simply ignores your
>>> right of way?
>>> 
>>> I even posted reference to two women who seized the lane, as Frank
>>> suggests.The truck apparently did every thing he could do to avoid
>>> them but hit them. One woman and one baby killed in the collision.
>>> 
>>> Frank's reaction? "Oh, they did it wrong."
>>
>>That's true. As I recall, they were on a motor scooter and they pulled 
>>directly out in front of a tractor trailer. Nobody here has ever 
>>advocated that.
>
>Nope, that's your interpretation. At that point in the main road a
>truck would have been traveling at about 70 - 80 kph - long curve in
>the main road. The motorbike drove out onto the main road, obviously
>at a distance that they felt it safe to do so - just because they were
>Thais, or women  doesn't mean that they were stupid. But it wasn't far
>enough. 
>
>But your explanation that "Oh! They didn't do it right" seems a bit
>hard hearted. Do you mean that anyone that doesn't ride exactly as you
>tell them to gets run over by trucks and your only comment is "Oh they
>didn't do it right"
> 
>I think I prefer "William Jay", at least he meant well.
>
>
>>
>>> 
>>> One might ask, "If doing it wrong causes your death how will you ever
>>> learn how to do it correctly?"
>>
>>:-)  Good question! How can anyone learn to do it correctly? My, what a 
>>puzzle!
>>
>>Answer: For the bare basics (all most people require) you might be able 
>>to find some instruction online. Something like this, for example:
>>https://www.bicyclinglife.com/SafetySkills/FrankNFred004.htm
>>
>>You might try buying and reading a copy of _Street Smarts_ by John 
>>Allen. It's a slim volume, but it actually has more detail than most 
>>people need. (This really isn't rocket science, John.)
>>
>>If you want videos instead of reading, you could go to
>>https://cyclingsavvy.org/  They have quite a bit of information 
>>available online, both videos and well done animations.
>>
>>If you want to become much more expert, or if you need even more 
>>guidance - say, because you're really nervous about this - you could 
>>sign up for a real live course from Cycling Savvy. And if you're not in 
>>the U.S., there are similar organizations in places like Britain and 
>>Canada, and probably other countries that offer instruction courses. 
>>Google is your friend.
>>
>>Finally, if you really want deep learning on these topics and 
>>techniques, you can buy a copy of _Cyclecraft_ by John Franklin. He has 
>>editions for drive-on-the-left places like Britain, and 
>>drive-on-the-right places like U.S. and Canada.
>>
>>Whatever you do, don't throw up your hands and pretend its impossible. 
>>Try to remember that there are plenty of people competently and 
>>confidently bicycling in conditions you pretend are impossible.

Rear end collisions are pretty common. Thank goodness that most of
them don't involve bicycles.

--
C'est bon
Soloman