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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input
 to HHH(DD)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2025 12:00:41 -0500
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On 5/11/2025 11:28 AM, wij wrote:
> On Sun, 2025-05-11 at 10:38 -0500, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/11/2025 9:34 AM, wij wrote:
>>> On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 21:19 -0500, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 5/10/2025 9:09 PM, wij wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 20:56 -0500, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/10/2025 8:44 PM, wij wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 20:26 -0500, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/10/2025 8:17 PM, wij wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 17:03 -0500, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/10/2025 4:44 PM, wij wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 14:29 -0500, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/10/2025 2:02 PM, wij wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You don't know the counter example in the HP proof, your D is not the case what HP
>>>>>>>>> says.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sure I do this is it! (as correctly encoded in C)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> typedef void (*ptr)();
>>>>>>>> int HHH(ptr P);
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> int DD()
>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>        int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
>>>>>>>>        if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>>>          HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>>        return Halt_Status;
>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> int main()
>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>        HHH(DD);
>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Try to convert it to TM language to know you know nothing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I spent 22 years on this. I started with the Linz text
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When Ĥ is applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qy ∞
>>>>>>       or
>>>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (a) Ĥ copies its input ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>> (b) Ĥ invokes embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>> (c) embedded_H simulates ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thus ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ correctly simulated by embedded_H
>>>>>> cannot possibly reach its simulated final halt state
>>>>>> ⟨Ĥ.qn⟩
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To refute the HP, you need to understand what it exactly means in TM.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have known this for 22 years.
>>>>>
>>>>> A working TM. Build it explicitly from transition function, then explain
>>>>> your derivation. You know nothing.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That would be like examining how an operating system
>>>> works entirely from its machine code.
>>>
>>> You are refuting a CS foundamental theorem (i.e. HP) officially.
>>> So, yes, and actually MORE need to be done (beyond your imagination).
>>>
>>> Knowing a car or smart phone,... is far different from making one.
>>> Knowing E=mc^2 is far from knowing relativity, making A-bomb (actually, making
>>> A-bomb don't need to know E=mc^2, people are often fooled by popular saying)
>>>    
>>> Every chapter of Linz's book, C text textbook has exercises, you need to those
>>> exercises AT LEAST to comment CS (and computation theory is more advanced topic
>>> than TM). Saying so is because we know you can't do the exercise and boast lots
>>> about TM stuff (and pretty much anything else from just reading words), even
>>> about theorem.
>>>
>>
>> When Ĥ is applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩
>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qy ∞
>>     or
>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn
>>
>> (a) Ĥ copies its input ⟨Ĥ⟩
>> (b) Ĥ invokes embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
>> (c) embedded_H simulates ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>
>> All that I need to know is that I proved that
>> embedded_H correctly recognizes the repeating
>> pattern where its correctly simulated ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
>> cannot possibly reach its own simulated final
>> halt state of ⟨Ĥ.qn⟩
>>
>> https://www.liarparadox.org/Linz_Proof.pdf
>>
>>>> We only have to actually know one detail:
>>>> Every counter-example input encoded in any model
>>>> of computation always specifies recursive simulation
>>>> that never halts to its corresponding simulating
>>>> termination analyzer.
>>>
>>> More example here that you don't understand nearly all CS terms.
>>>
>>
>> Mere empty rhetoric entirely bereft of any supporting
>> reasoning. The x86 language is comparable to a RASP
>> machine that is equivalent to a Turing machine.
> 
> Question:
> 1. Do you understand that you can't do the exercises in Linz's book?

Everything is 100% irrelevant besides the fact that
I have shown that ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ correctly simulated by
embedded_H cannot possibly reach its own simulated
final halt state ⟨Ĥ.qn⟩. Thus when embedded_H reports
on the behavior that its input specifies it can
correctly transition to Ĥ.qn.

> 2. Do you understand your ability of C/assembly/TM is less than 1 year CS level?
> 

I construe C as high level assembly language thus
disregard any inessentials. No change since K & R
is of any use to me. I write C++ the same way. I
use it as C with classes. I also use std::vector a lot.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer