Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input
 to HHH(DD)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2025 12:35:36 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 74
Message-ID: <vvqn58$i5d0$2@dont-email.me>
References: <vv97ft$3fg66$1@dont-email.me>
 <87msbmeo3b.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <vvjcge$27753$2@dont-email.me>
 <vvjeqf$28555$1@dont-email.me> <vvjffg$28g5i$1@dont-email.me>
 <875xiaejzg.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <vvjgt1$28g5i$5@dont-email.me>
 <87jz6qczja.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <vvjotc$28g5i$12@dont-email.me>
 <vvnh9u$3hd96$1@raubtier-asyl.eternal-september.org>
 <vvno4e$3in62$2@dont-email.me> <vvo71c$rlt$1@news.muc.de>
 <PlNTP.270466$lZjd.128570@fx05.ams4> <vvochv$15td$2@news.muc.de>
 <vvodn5$3na6l$3@dont-email.me>
 <1276edeb9893085c59b02bbbd59fe2c64011736b@i2pn2.org>
 <vvqk4s$gldn$12@dont-email.me> <vvqkk4$h4nm$4@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sun, 11 May 2025 19:35:37 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="ef7faca461217fa132b1f53eef89d0be";
	logging-data="595360"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/238oVx1URMdH4gl2ftCXq"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:eR4G3WRZiLQVkrWgn+En6bgsjDo=
X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250511-4, 5/11/2025), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <vvqkk4$h4nm$4@dont-email.me>

On 5/11/2025 11:52 AM, dbush wrote:
> On 5/11/2025 12:44 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/11/2025 6:13 AM, joes wrote:
>>> Am Sat, 10 May 2025 15:42:13 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>> On 5/10/2025 3:22 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>
>>>>> OK, then, give the page and line numbers from Turing's 1936 paper 
>>>>> where
>>>>> this alleged mistake was made.  I would be surprised indeed if you'd
>>>>> even looked at Turing's paper, far less understood it.  Yet you're
>>>>> ready to denigrate his work.
>>>>> Perhaps it is time for you to withdraw these uncalled for 
>>>>> insinuations.
>>>>>
>>>> It is the whole gist of the entire idea of the halting problem proof
>>>> that is wrongheaded.
>>>> (1) It is anchored in the false assumption that an input to a
>>>> termination analyzer can actually do this opposite of whatever value
>>>> that this analyzer returns. No one ever notices that this "do the
>>>> opposite" code is unreachable.
>>
>>> The simulated DDD doesn't matter. HHH returns to DDD, and DDD then does
>>> the opposite.
>>>
>>
>> HHH is only allowed to report on the behavior that
>> its actual input actually specifies.
> 
> False.  It must report on the behavior of the algorithm described by the 
> input, as per the requirements:
> 

That was always only based on the false assumption
that these behaviors could not possibly diverge.
When I proves that these behaviors DO diverge that
changes everything.

functions computed by models of computation
must transform inputs into outputs by applying
an specific algorithm.

int sum(int x, int y) { return x + y; }
sum coverts its inputs to an output on
the basis of the rules of arithmetic.

A simulating termination analyzer within a
model of computation transforms inputs into
the behavior that these inputs specify according
to the computing language of this model of
computation.

_DDD()
[00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002173] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp  ; housekeeping
[00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
[0000217f] 83c404     add  esp,+04
[00002182] 5d         pop  ebp
[00002183] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

DDD emulated by HHH according to the rules of the
x86 language cannot possibly halt.

All that you have ever been showing is your own lack
of comprehension of the subtle nuances of the details
of functions computed by models of computation.

HHH is not allowed to violate the rules of the x86
language just to conform to some quote in a textbook.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer