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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input
 to HHH(DD)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2025 15:53:51 -0500
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On 5/11/2025 3:23 PM, wij wrote:
> On Sun, 2025-05-11 at 15:19 -0500, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/11/2025 1:38 PM, wij wrote:
>>> On Sun, 2025-05-11 at 12:40 -0500, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 5/11/2025 12:21 PM, wij wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 2025-05-11 at 12:00 -0500, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/11/2025 11:28 AM, wij wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 2025-05-11 at 10:38 -0500, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/11/2025 9:34 AM, wij wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 21:19 -0500, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/10/2025 9:09 PM, wij wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 20:56 -0500, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/10/2025 8:44 PM, wij wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 20:26 -0500, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/10/2025 8:17 PM, wij wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 17:03 -0500, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/10/2025 4:44 PM, wij wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 2025-05-10 at 14:29 -0500, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/10/2025 2:02 PM, wij wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't know the counter example in the HP proof, your D is not the case
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what HP
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> says.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sure I do this is it! (as correctly encoded in C)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> typedef void (*ptr)();
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> int HHH(ptr P);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> int DD()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>           int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>           if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>             HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>           return Halt_Status;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> int main()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>           HHH(DD);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Try to convert it to TM language to know you know nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I spent 22 years on this. I started with the Linz text
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> When Ĥ is applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qy ∞
>>>>>>>>>>>>          or
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (a) Ĥ copies its input ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>>>>>>>> (b) Ĥ invokes embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>>>>>>>> (c) embedded_H simulates ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thus ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ correctly simulated by embedded_H
>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot possibly reach its simulated final halt state
>>>>>>>>>>>> ⟨Ĥ.qn⟩
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To refute the HP, you need to understand what it exactly means in TM.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have known this for 22 years.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A working TM. Build it explicitly from transition function, then explain
>>>>>>>>>>> your derivation. You know nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That would be like examining how an operating system
>>>>>>>>>> works entirely from its machine code.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are refuting a CS foundamental theorem (i.e. HP) officially.
>>>>>>>>> So, yes, and actually MORE need to be done (beyond your imagination).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Knowing a car or smart phone,... is far different from making one.
>>>>>>>>> Knowing E=mc^2 is far from knowing relativity, making A-bomb (actually, making
>>>>>>>>> A-bomb don't need to know E=mc^2, people are often fooled by popular saying)
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>> Every chapter of Linz's book, C text textbook has exercises, you need to those
>>>>>>>>> exercises AT LEAST to comment CS (and computation theory is more advanced topic
>>>>>>>>> than TM). Saying so is because we know you can't do the exercise and boast lots
>>>>>>>>> about TM stuff (and pretty much anything else from just reading words), even
>>>>>>>>> about theorem.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When Ĥ is applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qy ∞
>>>>>>>>        or
>>>>>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (a) Ĥ copies its input ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>>>> (b) Ĥ invokes embedded_H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>>>> (c) embedded_H simulates ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All that I need to know is that I proved that
>>>>>>>> embedded_H correctly recognizes the repeating
>>>>>>>> pattern where its correctly simulated ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩
>>>>>>>> cannot possibly reach its own simulated final
>>>>>>>> halt state of ⟨Ĥ.qn⟩
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.liarparadox.org/Linz_Proof.pdf
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We only have to actually know one detail:
>>>>>>>>>> Every counter-example input encoded in any model
>>>>>>>>>> of computation always specifies recursive simulation
>>>>>>>>>> that never halts to its corresponding simulating
>>>>>>>>>> termination analyzer.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> More example here that you don't understand nearly all CS terms.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mere empty rhetoric entirely bereft of any supporting
>>>>>>>> reasoning. The x86 language is comparable to a RASP
>>>>>>>> machine that is equivalent to a Turing machine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Question:
>>>>>>> 1. Do you understand that you can't do the exercises in Linz's book?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everything is 100% irrelevant besides the fact that
>>>>>> I have shown that ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ correctly simulated by
>>>>>> embedded_H cannot possibly reach its own simulated
>>>>>> final halt state ⟨Ĥ.qn⟩. Thus when embedded_H reports
>>>>>> on the behavior that its input specifies it can
>>>>>> correctly transition to Ĥ.qn.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. Do you understand your ability of C/assembly/TM is less than 1 year CS level?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I construe C as high level assembly language thus
>>>>>> disregard any inessentials. No change since K & R
>>>>>> is of any use to me. I write C++ the same way. I
>>>>>> use it as C with classes. I also use std::vector a lot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Q3. If people know the capability of the author of POOH is less than 1 year CS
>>>>>        level. How persuasive and reliable of POOH do you think it would be?
>>>>>
>>>>> Q4: Why no one can reproduce the result of POOH for these 22? years?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _DDD()
>>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov  ebp,esp  ; housekeeping
>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add  esp,+04
>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop  ebp
>>>> [00002183] c3         ret
>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>
>>>> All anyone need do to show that I am wrong
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