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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Try and prove that DDD correctly emulated by HHH reaches its
 final halt state
Date: Mon, 12 May 2025 09:36:01 -0500
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On 5/12/2025 2:39 AM, Mikko wrote:
> On 2025-05-11 16:23:29 +0000, olcott said:
> 
>> On 5/11/2025 4:20 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2025-05-10 15:33:50 +0000, olcott said:
>>>
>>>> On 5/10/2025 2:40 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-05-10 01:26:54 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>    return;
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret
>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Try to show how DDD emulated by HHH according to the
>>>>>> rules of the x86 language reaches its own "ret"
>>>>>> instruction final halt state.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you do the impossible then everything happens, including
>>>>> the reaching of the final "ret" instruction. In this case
>>>>> the impossible is a correct emulation of DDD by HHH according
>>>>> to the rules of the x86 language.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is not impossible for DDD to be emulated
>>>> by HHH according to the rules of the x86 language.
>>>
>>> You may call it possible or impossible but either way, HHH does
>>> not emulate the final "ret" isntruction.
>>>
>>>> Here it is actually doing this.
>>>>
>>>> _DDD()
>>>> [0000219e] 55             push ebp
>>>> [0000219f] 8bec           mov ebp,esp
>>>> [000021a1] 689e210000     push 0000219e
>>>> [000021a6] e843f4ffff     call 000015ee
>>>> [000021ab] 83c404         add esp,+04
>>>> [000021ae] 5d             pop ebp
>>>> [000021af] c3             ret
>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [000021af]
>>>>
>>>> _main()
>>>> [000021be] 55             push ebp
>>>> [000021bf] 8bec           mov ebp,esp
>>>> [000021c1] 689e210000     push 0000219e
>>>> [000021c6] e823f4ffff     call 000015ee
>>>> [000021cb] 83c404         add esp,+04
>>>> [000021ce] 50             push eax
>>>> [000021cf] 685f070000     push 0000075f
>>>> [000021d4] e8a5e5ffff     call 0000077e
>>>> [000021d9] 83c408         add esp,+08
>>>> [000021dc] 33c0           xor eax,eax
>>>> [000021de] 5d             pop ebp
>>>> [000021df] c3             ret
>>>> Size in bytes:(0034) [000021df]
>>>>
>>>>   machine   stack     stack     machine        assembly
>>>>   address   address   data      code           language
>>>>   ========  ========  ========  ============== =============
>>>> [000021be][00103872][00000000] 55             push ebp
>>>> [000021bf][00103872][00000000] 8bec           mov ebp,esp
>>>> [000021c1][0010386e][0000219e] 689e210000     push 0000219e // push DDD
>>>> [000021c6][0010386a][000021cb] e823f4ffff     call 000015ee // call HHH
>>>> New slave_stack at:103916
>>>>
>>>> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:11391e
>>>> [0000219e][0011390e][00113912] 55             push ebp
>>>> [0000219f][0011390e][00113912] 8bec           mov ebp,esp
>>>> [000021a1][0011390a][0000219e] 689e210000     push 0000219e // push DDD
>>>> [000021a6][00113906][000021ab] e843f4ffff     call 000015ee // call HHH
>>>>
>>>> The following shows the result of HHH emulating
>>>> itself emulating DDD. x86utm is a cooperative
>>>> multi-tasking operating system.
>>>>
>>>> New slave_stack at:14e33e
>>>> [0000219e][0015e336][0015e33a] 55             push ebp
>>>> [0000219f][0015e336][0015e33a] 8bec           mov ebp,esp
>>>> [000021a1][0015e332][0000219e] 689e210000     push 0000219e // push DDD
>>>> [000021a6][0015e32e][000021ab] e843f4ffff     call 000015ee // call HHH
>>>> Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped
>>>>
>>>> [000021cb][00103872][00000000] 83c404         add esp,+04
>>>> [000021ce][0010386e][00000000] 50             push eax
>>>> [000021cf][0010386a][0000075f] 685f070000     push 0000075f
>>>> [000021d4][0010386a][0000075f] e8a5e5ffff     call 0000077e
>>>> Input_Halts = 0
>>>> [000021d9][00103872][00000000] 83c408         add esp,+08
>>>> [000021dc][00103872][00000000] 33c0           xor eax,eax
>>>> [000021de][00103876][00000018] 5d             pop ebp
>>>> [000021df][0010387a][00000000] c3             ret
>>>> Number of Instructions Executed(10069) == 150 Pages
>>>
>>> Apparently you said that the last "ret" is not acutally emulated but
>>> only its emulation is emulated.
>>>
>>> Your trace lacks the indication of which lines are actually trace lines
>>> and which are output lines from the emulated program that only look like
>>> trace lines.
>>
>> You must use the machine addresses to see what code
>> is being emulated. New slave_stack indicate that
>> a new process context has been created. Code following
>> that is being emulated.
> 
> Nowhere is said that a slave stack is disposed. Apparently no emulation
> is ever completed. But your output is too defective to be sure.
> 
>> New slave_stack at:14e33e indicates that HHH is
>> about to emulate itself emulating DDD.
> 
> But not to the completion of the emulated emulation.
> 

When what is essentially infinite is specified
there is no transition to a final halt state.

It is nutty to require a simulating termination
analyzer to simulate a non-terminating input forever.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer