Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Incorrect requirements --- Computing the mapping from the input
 to HHH(DD)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2025 12:58:17 +0200
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Op 13.mei.2025 om 04:32 schreef olcott:
> On 5/12/2025 9:17 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
>> On 12/05/2025 02:25, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>> On 12/05/2025 01:38, Mike Terry wrote:
>>>> On 11/05/2025 18:11, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>> On 11/05/2025 17:44, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> Any yes/no question where both yes and no are the
>>>>>> wrong answer is an incorrect polar question.
>>>>>
>>>>> Either DD stops or it doesn't (once it's been hacked around to get 
>>>>> it to compile and after we've leeched out all the dodgy programming).
>>>>
>>>> Done that.
>>>
>>> And you still had code left?
>>>
>>>> It still stops.
>>>
>>> Okay.
>>>
>>>>> If the computer cannot correctly decide whether or not DD halts, 
>>>>
>>>> The decider says it doesn't stop..
>>>
>>> I said "cannot >>>correctly<<< decide".
>>
>> There are infinitely many deciders that could be given the input.  
>> Some of them decide that particular input correctly, and some 
>> incorrectly.
>>
>> PO's HHH is one of the ones that decide incorrectly.
>>
> 
> When "correctly" means to report on behavior besides
> that behavior that the input actually specifies then
> it is wrong.

And since the input actually specifies is a halting program, HHH is 
wrong when it says that it is a non-halting program.
If HHH does not take into account the specification in the input, which 
contains a conditional abort, then HHH ignores the specification in the 
input.

> 
> When 2 + 3 = 5 this is determined by the rules
> of arithmetic.
> 
> When the behavior that the input specifies according
> to the rules of the x86 language is non-halting then
> HHH must report on this behavior.

And when the input specifies a halting program, as proven by direct 
execution and world-class simulators. HHH must report that behaviour.

> 
> HHH cannot compute the mapping from its input to
> the behavior of the directly executed DD() for the
> same reason that

For the reason that its has a bug which causes a premature abort, that 
is a problem of HHH.
Because of this bug, HHH computes another input than is specified in the 
input, which is the same as:

> 
> int sum(int x, int y) { return x + y; }
> sum(3,2) can not compute any mapping to sum 5 + 7.
> THE INPUT SPECIFIES SOMETHING ELSE.
> 

And a buggy sum(int x, int y) { return 1 + x + y; } cannot compute the 
correct mapping of 3+2=5.
A bug in the program does not make the mapping correct.

Similarly, the bug in HHH to ignore the most important part of the 
input, does not make the mapping correct.