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Path: ...!Xl.tags.giganews.com!local-1.nntp.ord.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2024 20:51:46 +0000 Subject: Re: vis-viva and vis-motrix Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity References: <Q3udnQ_BXvnebXX7nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com> <66e96931$0$3271$426a74cc@news.free.fr> <Uj6dnY-qhbLyUHT7nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> <7RycnbrrTfx70W37nZ2dnZfqnPYAAAAA@giganews.com> <79qcnSfIffhX_m37nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@giganews.com> <t72dnUjHGp9d8Wn7nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> <66F478BF.7DAE@ix.netcom.com> <uWOdnegwverCXWn7nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com> <66F59C62.58E2@ix.netcom.com> <aSidnQ0zvNRkW2j7nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com> <llpuokFgheaU9@mid.individual.net> <81WdnRHj5_sE5mX7nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@giganews.com> <lluqp8F93kcU1@mid.individual.net> <arWdnUygcaauaWf7nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com> <lm1ka1Fln9eU3@mid.individual.net> <QZ6cnXcHOqHuBWH7nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com> From: Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2024 13:51:58 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <QZ6cnXcHOqHuBWH7nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@giganews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <wkCdnZvpP_V_nmL7nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@giganews.com> Lines: 573 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com X-Trace: sv3-6cqORROg9Xnqpcr+ABFjDcC+3KnEu2hQ+TILrOtvE1yO50FVVqQDAu6Tr8PHE1qmLPfXaqsoWTuWjbh!xFJKO7eFAMzrrkOxx7XtTW3T8i4vkZma1WQItqgXH/XZPjdmuvfMVgVvDKkuHLbMFpuWbIZwuqU= X-Complaints-To: abuse@giganews.com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 Bytes: 24710 On 10/01/2024 05:49 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote: > On 09/30/2024 11:48 PM, Thomas Heger wrote: >> Am Montag000030, 30.09.2024 um 20:55 schrieb Ross Finlayson: >>> On 09/29/2024 10:20 PM, Thomas Heger wrote: >>>> Am Samstag000028, 28.09.2024 um 23:57 schrieb Ross Finlayson: >>>>> On 09/28/2024 01:57 AM, Thomas Heger wrote: >>>>>> Am Donnerstag000026, 26.09.2024 um 22:41 schrieb Ross Finlayson: >>>>>>> On 09/26/2024 10:39 AM, The Starmaker wrote: >>>>>>>> Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 09/25/2024 01:55 PM, The Starmaker wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 09/22/2024 11:37 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/22/2024 09:59 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/17/2024 11:41 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/17/2024 04:34 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does anybody even bother to think about vis-viva versus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vis- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motrix >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anymore, with regards to conservation, momentum, inertia, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> energy, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and potential and impulse energy? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course not. These are obsolete distinctions, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from a time when energy and momentum conservation was not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corectly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The matter was put to rest by Christiaan Huygens >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by showing (for particle collisions) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that momentum conservation and energy conservation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are distinct conservation laws, that are both needed, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is it usually considered at all that momentum and inertia >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> places with respect to resistance to change of motion and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> respectively sort of back and forth in the theory since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> antiquity? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Several times? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Au contraire, there is yet definition up, in the air, as it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> were. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Find any reference to fictitious forces and for a theory >>>>>>>>>>>>>> where the potential fields are what's real and the classical >>>>>>>>>>>>>> field's just a projection to a perspective in the middle, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and anything at all to do with the plainly empirical or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tribological with regards to our grandly theoretical, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and one may find that the definitions of "inertia" and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "momentum" with regards to resistance to changes in motion >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and resistance to changes in rest, as with regards to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> weight and as with regards to heft, have rotated each >>>>>>>>>>>>>> few hundred years, as with regards to the great schism >>>>>>>>>>>>>> whence Newton's vis-motrix, as with regards to the vis-insita >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Leibnitz' vis-viva, as what for example can be read into >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the Wikipedia on conservation of _energy_ and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> conservation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of _momentum_ up to today, where for example, the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "infinitely- many >>>>>>>>>>>>>> higher orders of theoretical acceleration are both formally >>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-zero and vanishing" because "zero meters/second >>>>>>>>>>>>>> equals infinity seconds/meter". >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, for a true centrifugal, and quite all about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> derivative >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and anti-derivative as with regards to momentum, inertia, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and kinetic energy, in a theory what's of course >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sum-of-histories >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sum-of-potentials with least action and gradient, or sum-of- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> potentials, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is so that the various under-defined concepts of the plain >>>>>>>>>>>>>> laws >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of after Newton, are as yet un-defined, and there are a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> variety >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of considerations as with regards to the multiplicities, or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> these singularities, and the reciprocities, of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>> projections. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, some of these considerations as since "Mediaeval Times", >>>>>>>>>>>>>> help reflect that Einstein's not alone in his, 'attack on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Newton'. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moment and Motion: a story of momentum >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH-Gh- >>>>>>>>>>>>> bBb7M&list=PLb7rLSBiE7F4eHy5vT61UYFR7_BIhwcOY >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Theories and principles, momentum and sum-of-histories >>>>>>>>>>>>> sum-of-potentials, conservation, momentum and inertia >>>>>>>>>>>>> and energy, fields and forces, Einstein's mechanics, >>>>>>>>>>>>> conservation of energy and conservation of momentum, >>>>>>>>>>>>> potential and fictitious and causal and virtual, mv, mv^2, >>>>>>>>>>>>> ordinary and extra-ordinary in the differential and inverses, >>>>>>>>>>>>> the standard curriculum and the super-standard, momentum >>>>>>>>>>>>> in definition, classical exposition, Bayes rule and a law of >>>>>>>>>>>>> large >>>>>>>>>>>>> numbers, law(s) of large numbers and not-Bayesian >>>>>>>>>>>>> expectations, >>>>>>>>>>>>> numerical methods in derivations, uniqueness results later >>>>>>>>>>>>> distinctness results, law(s) of large numbers and continuity, >>>>>>>>>>>>> complete and replete, induction and limits, partials and >>>>>>>>>>>>> limits, >>>>>>>>>>>>> the paleo-classical, platforms and planks, mass and weight >>>>>>>>>>>>> and heft, gravitational force and g-forces, measure and >>>>>>>>>>>>> matching measure, relativity and a difference between >>>>>>>>>>>>> rest and motion, heft, resistance to gravity, ideals and >>>>>>>>>>>>> billiard mechanics, wider ideals, Wallis and Huygens, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Nayfeh's nonlinear oscillations, addition of vectors, >>>>>>>>>>>>> observables and ideals, DesCartes' and Kelvin's vortices, >>>>>>>>>>>>> black holes and white holes, waves and optics, Euler, both >>>>>>>>>>>>> vis-motrix and vis-viva, d'Alembert's principle, Lagrange, >>>>>>>>>>>>> potential as integral over space, Maupertuis and Gauss >>>>>>>>>>>>> and least action and least constraint, Hamilton, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hamiltonians and Bayesians, Jacobi, Navier and Stokes >>>>>>>>>>>>> and Cauchy and Saint Venant and Maxwell, statistical >>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanics and entropy and least action, ideal and real, >>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanical reduction and severe abstraction, ions and >>>>>>>>>>>>> fields and field theory, wave mechanics and virtual particles, >>>>>>>>>>>>> ideals and the ideal, the classical and monistic holism, >>>>>>>>>>>>> paleo- >>>>>>>>>>>>> nouveau. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Much like the theories of "fall", "shadow", or >>>>>>>>>>>> "push" gravity, or the "shadow" or "umbral" >>>>>>>>>>>> gravity and for theories of real supergravity, >>>>>>>>>>>> as after Fatio and LeSage, as of theories of >>>>>>>>>>>> "pull" or "suck" gravity of Newton and the >>>>>>>>>>>> "rubber-sheet" or "down" gravity of Einstein, >>>>>>>>>>>> then the theories of vortices like DesCartes >>>>>>>>>>>> and Kelvin, and others, help reflect on the >>>>>>>>>>>> rectilinear and curvilinear, and flat and round, >>>>>>>>>>>> as with regards to deconstructive accounts of >>>>>>>>>>>> usual unstated assumptions and the severe >>>>>>>>>>>> abstraction and mechanical reduction, in as >>>>>>>>>>>> with regards to modern theories of mechanics. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Zero meters per second is infinity seconds per meter. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You know, zero meters per second is infinity seconds per meter, >>>>>>>>>>> and, any change of anything in motion has associated the >>>>>>>>>>> infinitely-many higher orders of acceleration, and, >>>>>>>>>>> it's rather underdefined and even undefined yet very ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========