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Subject: Re: vis-viva and vis-motrix
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
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From: Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2024 13:51:58 -0700
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On 10/01/2024 05:49 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
> On 09/30/2024 11:48 PM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am Montag000030, 30.09.2024 um 20:55 schrieb Ross Finlayson:
>>> On 09/29/2024 10:20 PM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>> Am Samstag000028, 28.09.2024 um 23:57 schrieb Ross Finlayson:
>>>>> On 09/28/2024 01:57 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>>>> Am Donnerstag000026, 26.09.2024 um 22:41 schrieb Ross Finlayson:
>>>>>>> On 09/26/2024 10:39 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
>>>>>>>> Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 09/25/2024 01:55 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/22/2024 11:37 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/22/2024 09:59 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/17/2024 11:41 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 09/17/2024 04:34 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does anybody even bother to think about vis-viva versus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vis-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motrix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anymore, with regards to conservation, momentum, inertia,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> energy,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and potential and impulse energy?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course not. These are obsolete distinctions,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from a time when energy and momentum conservation was not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corectly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The matter was put to rest by Christiaan Huygens
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by showing (for particle collisions)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that momentum conservation and energy conservation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are distinct conservation laws, that are both needed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is it usually considered at all that momentum and inertia
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> places with respect to resistance to change of motion and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> respectively sort of back and forth in the theory since
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> antiquity?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Several times?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Au contraire, there is yet definition up, in the air, as it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Find any reference to fictitious forces and for a theory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where the potential fields are what's real and the classical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field's just a projection to a perspective in the middle,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and anything at all to do with the plainly empirical or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tribological with regards to our grandly theoretical,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and one may find that the definitions of "inertia" and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "momentum" with regards to resistance to changes in motion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and resistance to changes in rest, as with regards to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> weight and as with regards to heft, have rotated each
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few hundred years, as with regards to the great schism
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whence Newton's vis-motrix, as with regards to the vis-insita
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Leibnitz' vis-viva, as what for example can be read into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the Wikipedia on conservation of _energy_ and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conservation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of _momentum_ up to today, where for example, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "infinitely- many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> higher orders of theoretical acceleration are both formally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-zero and vanishing" because "zero meters/second
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equals infinity seconds/meter".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, for a true centrifugal, and quite all about the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> derivative
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and anti-derivative as with regards to momentum, inertia,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and kinetic energy, in a theory what's of course
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sum-of-histories
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sum-of-potentials with least action and gradient, or sum-of-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potentials,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is so that the various under-defined concepts of the plain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> laws
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of after Newton, are as yet un-defined, and there are a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> variety
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of considerations as with regards to the multiplicities, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these singularities, and the reciprocities, of these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> projections.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, some of these considerations as since "Mediaeval Times",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help reflect that Einstein's not alone in his, 'attack on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Newton'.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moment and Motion:  a story of momentum
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH-Gh-
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bBb7M&list=PLb7rLSBiE7F4eHy5vT61UYFR7_BIhwcOY
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Theories and principles, momentum and sum-of-histories
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sum-of-potentials, conservation, momentum and inertia
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and energy, fields and forces, Einstein's mechanics,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> conservation of energy and conservation of momentum,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> potential and fictitious and causal and virtual, mv, mv^2,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ordinary and extra-ordinary in the differential and inverses,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the standard curriculum and the super-standard, momentum
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in definition, classical exposition, Bayes rule and a law of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> large
>>>>>>>>>>>>> numbers, law(s) of large numbers and not-Bayesian
>>>>>>>>>>>>> expectations,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> numerical methods in derivations, uniqueness results later
>>>>>>>>>>>>> distinctness results, law(s) of large numbers and continuity,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> complete and replete, induction and limits, partials and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> limits,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the paleo-classical, platforms and planks, mass and weight
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and heft, gravitational force and g-forces, measure and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> matching measure, relativity and a difference between
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rest and motion, heft, resistance to gravity, ideals and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> billiard mechanics, wider ideals, Wallis and Huygens,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nayfeh's nonlinear oscillations, addition of vectors,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> observables and ideals, DesCartes' and Kelvin's vortices,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> black holes and white holes, waves and optics, Euler, both
>>>>>>>>>>>>> vis-motrix and vis-viva, d'Alembert's principle, Lagrange,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> potential as integral over space, Maupertuis and Gauss
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and least action and least constraint, Hamilton,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hamiltonians and Bayesians, Jacobi, Navier and Stokes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Cauchy and Saint Venant and Maxwell, statistical
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanics and entropy and least action, ideal and real,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanical reduction and severe abstraction, ions and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fields and field theory, wave mechanics and virtual particles,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ideals and the ideal, the classical and monistic holism,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> paleo-
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nouveau.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Much like the theories of "fall", "shadow", or
>>>>>>>>>>>> "push" gravity, or the "shadow" or "umbral"
>>>>>>>>>>>> gravity and for theories of real supergravity,
>>>>>>>>>>>> as after Fatio and LeSage, as of theories of
>>>>>>>>>>>> "pull" or "suck" gravity of Newton and the
>>>>>>>>>>>> "rubber-sheet" or "down" gravity of Einstein,
>>>>>>>>>>>> then the theories of vortices like DesCartes
>>>>>>>>>>>> and Kelvin, and others, help reflect on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> rectilinear and curvilinear, and flat and round,
>>>>>>>>>>>> as with regards to deconstructive accounts of
>>>>>>>>>>>> usual unstated assumptions and the severe
>>>>>>>>>>>> abstraction and mechanical reduction, in as
>>>>>>>>>>>> with regards to modern theories of mechanics.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Zero meters per second is infinity seconds per meter.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You know, zero meters per second is infinity seconds per meter,
>>>>>>>>>>> and, any change of anything in motion has associated the
>>>>>>>>>>> infinitely-many higher orders of acceleration, and,
>>>>>>>>>>> it's rather underdefined and even undefined yet very
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