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NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 01:30:13 +0000
Subject: Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved
 criteria is met
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
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From: Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 02:30:13 +0100
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On 27/06/2024 02:15, Mike Terry wrote:
> On 27/06/2024 01:42, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/26/24 8:20 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/26/2024 6:55 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/26/24 7:46 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/26/2024 6:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/26/24 9:42 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/26/2024 6:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/25/24 11:42 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That is not the way that it actually works.
>>>>>>>>> That the the way that lies are defined.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Source for you claim?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Where is you finite set of steps from the truthmakers of the system to that claim?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>> [00002172] 55�������������� push ebp����� ; housekeeping
>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec������������ mov ebp,esp�� ; housekeeping
>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000������ push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff������ call 000015d2 ; call H0(DDD)
>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404���������� add esp,+04
>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d�������������� pop ebp
>>>>>>> [00002183] c3�������������� ret
>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The call from DDD to H0(DDD) when DDD is correctly emulated
>>>>>>> by H0 cannot possibly return.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sure it can. I have shown an H0 that does so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I already told you that example does not count.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't keep repeating those details or others
>>>>> that so far have no idea what an x86 emulator is
>>>>> will be baffled beyond all hope of comprehension.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> WHy not?
>>>>
>>>
>>> We have already been over that you know that you cheated.
>>>
>>
>> Nope, since you didn't put in the rule, and if you had it would have shown that you lied, as if H0 
>> is a pure function then the call to H0 emulated by H0 needs to have the same behaivor as the 
>> direct call to H0 by main.
> 
> Incidentally, the nonconformance you're referring to is shown explicitly in the "195 page trace" 
> that PO linked to.� [I.e. the simulated H does not correctly track the code path of the outer H.]

I suppose I should have made clear, that's not simply due to the simulated H being aborted.  There 
is an instruction in H:   [actually, in Init_Halts_HH()]

[000012e4] 753b jnz 00001321

and in outer H control proceeds to 000012e6  [i.e. branch not taken],
whilein simulated H control proceeds to 00001321  [i.e. branch taken]


Mike.