Path: nntp.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy Subject: Re: Title: A Structural Analysis of the Standard Halting Problem Proof Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2025 22:46:22 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 106 Message-ID: <105n1ie$bbj9$1@dont-email.me> References: <105ht1n$36s20$1@dont-email.me> <105kvub$2q17h$1@dont-email.me> <105lg9k$3v8t8$6@dont-email.me> <105ljhk$9si$1@news.muc.de> <105lkj4$3v8t8$13@dont-email.me> <105lnn2$2srt$1@news.muc.de> <105lpsd$1mvr$1@dont-email.me> <105m9me$2phf$1@news.muc.de> <105mcl3$48m9$1@dont-email.me> <105ms6j$333bs$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2025 05:46:22 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="a14401adad5651a253e4d054a1d0c031"; logging-data="372329"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18mtSrWqvTdyzL8LUjWc2Lg" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:Ku57SEdrhTAerYh8G87CaLD0+tI= Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250721-10, 7/21/2025), Outbound message In-Reply-To: <105ms6j$333bs$1@dont-email.me> On 7/21/2025 5:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 7/21/25 5:49 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 7/21/2025 3:58 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>> [ Followup-To: set ] >>> >>> In comp.theory olcott wrote: >>>> On 7/21/2025 10:52 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>>>> olcott wrote: >>>>>> On 7/21/2025 9:40 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >>>>>>> olcott wrote: >>>>>>>> On 7/21/2025 4:06 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 2025-07-20 11:48:37 +0000, Mr Flibble said: >>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 20 Jul 2025 07:13:43 -0400, Richard Damon wrote: >>> >>>>>>> [ .... ] >>> >>>>>>>>>>> Your problem is you don't understand the meaning of the words >>>>>>>>>>> you are >>>>>>>>>>> using. >>> >>>>>>>>>> This is an ad hominem attack, not argumentation. >>> >>>>>>>>> It is also honest and truthful, which is not as common as it >>>>>>>>> should. >>> >>> >>>>>>>> It is also honest and truthful that people >>>>>>>> that deny verified facts are either liars >>>>>>>> or lack sufficient technical competence. >>> >>>>>>> What you call "verified facts" are generally nothing of the kind. >>>>>>> They >>>>>>> are merely things, often false, you would like to be true. >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> *One key example of a denied verified fact is when Joes said* >>> >>>>>> On 7/18/2025 3:49 AM, joes wrote: >>>>>>> very obvious that HHH cannot simulate >>>>>>> DDD past the call to HHH. >>> >>>>> Joes is quite right, here, as has been said to you many times over by >>>>> several people. >>> >>>>>> HHH(DDD) does emulate itself emulating DDD >>> >>>>> You will have a get out clause from the vagueness of your language, >>>>> which >>>>> could be construed to mean practically anything. >>> >>>> typedef void (*ptr)(); >>>> int HHH(ptr P); >>> >>>> void DDD() >>>> { >>>>    HHH(DDD); >>>>    return; >>>> } >>> >>>> int main() >>>> { >>>>    HHH(DDD); >>>> } >>> >>>> Not at all. HHH does emulate the x86 machine code >>>> of DDD pointed to by P. That is does this according >>>> to the semantics of the x86 language conclusively >>>> proves that this emulation is correct. >>> >>> That's nauseatingly overstretching things into another lie.  Whatever >>> HHH >>> might do is far short of sufficient "conclusively to prove" that the >>> emulation is correct.  To prove that is likely impossible in principle, >>> that's even assuming you could define "correct" coherently. >>> >> >> [00002192] 55             push ebp >> [00002193] 8bec           mov ebp,esp >> [00002195] 6892210000     push 00002192 >> [0000219a] e833f4ffff     call 000015d2  // call HHH >> [0000219f] 83c404         add esp,+04 >> [000021a2] 5d             pop ebp >> [000021a3] c3             ret >> Size in bytes:(0018) [000021a3] > > Which isn't a program, you need to include the code for HHH. > *Yet again your attention deficit disorder* I have told you countless times that all of the machine code for every function is in the same global memory space of halt7.obj. I have also told you countless times that HHH does simulate itself simulating DDD and I have proven this by this execution trace. https://liarparadox.org/HHH(DDD)_Full_Trace.pdf That you don't know how to read an execution trace does not mean that I have not proven this. -- Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer