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From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Newsgroups: sci.logic
Subject: Re: This makes all Analytic(Olcott) truth computable --- truth-bearer
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2024 15:06:54 +0300
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On 2024-08-21 12:47:37 +0000, olcott said:

> On 8/20/2024 9:43 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 8/20/24 9:45 AM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 8/20/2024 4:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2024-08-19 12:58:12 +0000, olcott said:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 8/19/2024 3:14 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-08-18 11:26:22 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 8/18/2024 5:37 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-08-17 15:47:51 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 8/17/2024 10:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 8/17/24 11:12 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/17/2024 9:53 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess you consider all the papers they wrote describing the effects 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of their definitions "nothing"
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Not at all and you know this.
>>>>>>>>>>> One change had many effects yet was still one change.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> But would mean nothing without showing the affects of that change.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Yet again with your imprecise use of words.
>>>>>>>>> When any tiniest portion of the meaning of an expression
>>>>>>>>> has been defined this teeny tiny piece of the definition
>>>>>>>>> makes this expression not pure random gibberish.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Meaningless does not mean has less meaning, it is
>>>>>>>>> an idiom for having zero meaning.
>>>>>>>>> https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/meaningless
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You are lying. According to that page the word "meaningless"
>>>>>>>> has two meanings. The other is 'having no real importance or value'.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> OK. I always use the base meaning of a term as its only meaning.
>>>>>>> That makes things much simpler if everyone knows this standard.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> People have different opions about which meaning is the "base"
>>>>>> meaning.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The most commonly used sense meaning at the first
>>>>> index in the dictionary.
>>>> 
>>>> If you want to use this you should say so and specify the dictionary
>>>> in the beginning of your opus. You shold not choose a dictionary
>>>> that presents obsolete and archaic meanings first.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Base meaning as in the meaning in a knowledge ontology
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology_(information_science)
>>> basis that all other sense meanings inherit from.
>>> 
>>>>>>> For example a liar must be intentionally deceptive not merely mistaken.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For example people may regard you as a liar if you say something untrue
>>>>>> when you were too lazy to check the facts.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am redefining the foundations of logic thus my definitions
>>>>> are stipulated to override and supersede the original definitions.
>>>> 
>>>> If you want to use definitions other that the first meaning given
>>>> by the dictionary, you must present the definition before the
>>>> first use in each opus that uses it.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> The key term that I am slightly adapting is the term {analytic}
>>> from the analytic synthetic distinction. That is why the
>>> title of this post says Analytic(Olcott)
>> 
>> Which, as I pointed out elswhere, basically means you aren't actually 
>> talking about formal systems, as they don't have that distinction, 
>> because there is no sense based truth to be synthetic.
>> 
> 
> 
> Formal systems kind of sort of has some vague idea of what True
> means. Tarski "proved" that there is no True(L,x) that can be
> consistently defined.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarski%27s_undefinability_theorem#General_form
> 
> *The defined predicate True(L,x) fixed that*
> Unless expression x has a connection (through a sequence
> of true preserving operations) in system F to its semantic
> meanings expressed in language L of F then x is simply
> untrue in F.
> 
> Whenever there is no sequence of truth preserving from
> x or ~x to its meaning in L of F then x has no truth-maker
> in F and x not a truth-bearer in F. We never get to x is
> undecidable in F.

Tarski proved that True is undefineable in certain formal systems.
Your definition is not expressible in F, at least not as a definition.

A problem with your method is that it is ofen not known whether there
is a sequence of truth-preserving transformations in F and there is
no method to find out.

Your definition also requires truth-preserving is defined without
reference to truth. Is there any such definiton?

-- 
Mikko