Path: ...!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Thomas Koenig Newsgroups: comp.arch Subject: Re: Short Vectors Versus Long Vectors Date: Wed, 1 May 2024 08:56:47 -0000 (UTC) Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 76 Message-ID: References: <5451dcac941e1f569397a5cc7818f68f@www.novabbs.org> <2024Apr24.081658@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <2024Apr24.112806@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <4lnk2jdiligpupetq3cncs2j41mdcpd7l1@4ax.com> <86plu9uqx0.fsf@linuxsc.com> <86mspat3w7.fsf@linuxsc.com> Injection-Date: Wed, 01 May 2024 10:56:48 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="312d0de3f913a5b90c3df1fcb9a65b59"; logging-data="3238207"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18lKFJa2cPwPAubZ+2InLswcMSerc7c6Dk=" User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (Linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:cVfrVcytOm/4iz35krzWAHdHUcA= Bytes: 4572 Tim Rentsch schrieb: > Thomas Koenig writes: > >> Tim Rentsch schrieb: >> >>> Thomas Koenig writes: >>> >>>> John Savard schrieb: >>>> >>>>> On Thu, 25 Apr 2024 05:39:55 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 23:10:47 -0600, John Savard wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> One of the things that those supercomputers that _do_ include >>>>>>> GPUs are praised for is being energy-efficient. >>>>>> >>>>>> That I never heard before. I heard it in relation to ARM CPUs, >>>>>> yes, GPUs, no. >>>>> >>>>> Here's one example of an item about this: >>>>> >>>>> https://www.infoworld.com/article/2627720/ >>>>> gpus-boost-energy-efficiency-in-supercomputers.html >>>> >>>> Compared the late 1950s, was the total energy consumption by >>>> computers higher or lower than today? :-) >>> >>> Total energy consumption by computers in the 1950s was lower >>> than today by at least a factor of 10. >> >> Undoubtedly true, but I think you're missing quite a few >> orders of magnitude there. > > Probably not as many as you think. :) > >>> It wouldn't surprise >>> me to discover the energy consumption of just the servers in >>> Amazon Web Services datacenters exceeds the 1950s total, and >>> that's only AWS (reportedly more than 1.4 million servers). >> >> https://smithsonianeducation.org/scitech/carbons/1960.html states >> that, in 1954, there were 15 computers in the US. That seems low >> (did they only count IBM 701 machines?), but it reportedly went up to >> 17000 in 1964. >> >> Even if you put the number of computers at 100 for the mid-1950s, at >> 100 kW each, you only get 10 MW of power when they ran (wich they often >> didn't; due to maintenance, these early computers seem to have been >> day shift only). > > Oh boy, numbers. > > First your question asked about the late 1950s, not the mid 1950s. > > I estimated between 10,000 and 20,000 computers by the end of > the 1950s, and chose 5 KW as an average consumption. In those > days computers were big. Probably the estimate for number of > machines is a bit on the high side, and the average consumption > is a bit on the low side. I'm only estimating. The number of computers is probably high, the power maybe somewhat low, but let us take it as a basis - 2*10^4 computers with 5*10^3 Watt, total power if they are all on at the same time 10^8 Watt. Let's assume an operating time of 4000 hours, so total energy consumption would be around 1.44*10^15 J or 4*10^8 kWh, or 0.4 Terawatt-hours. For today, we don't need to make an estimate ourselves, we can use other people's. Looking at https://frontiergroup.org/resources/fact-file-computing-is-using-more-energy-than-ever/ one finds that data centers alone use around 240-340 Terawatt-hours, so we have a factor of a bit less than 1000 alredy. The total sector, according to the same source, and also according to https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/POST-PN-0677/POST-PN-0677.pdf is around three times that.