Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic Subject: Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V2 ---ignoring all other replies Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2024 11:31:18 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 75 Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2024 18:31:19 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="65be3053bb2d9b452c13d5ddc3153d90"; logging-data="3734035"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18ju+m8V+DUOCM0Kj+v4pAB" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:p2D+K2t7742Y3wxPMDOEYZbqyxQ= In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 5033 On 6/15/2024 11:26 AM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 6/15/24 12:19 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 6/15/2024 11:11 AM, joes wrote: >>> Am Sat, 15 Jun 2024 10:54:54 -0500 schrieb olcott: >>>> On 6/15/2024 10:12 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>> On 6/15/24 11:07 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>> On 6/15/2024 10:00 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>> On 6/15/24 10:37 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>> On 6/13/2024 8:24 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 6/13/24 11:32 AM, olcott wrote: >>> >>>>>> *Then do as I originally requested and provide ALL OF THE STEPS* >>>>> The mapping, for this H and D, is: >>>>> (D,D) -> 1 >>>> I am asking for a mapping from the machine language finite string of >>>> the >>>> input to H(D,D) to each of the individual steps of the behavior of >>>> D(D). >> >> *THIS SEEMS WAY WAY OVER YOUR HEAD* >> It is contingent upon you to show the exact steps of how H computes >> the mapping from the x86 machine language finite string input to >> H(D,D) using the finite string transformation rules specified by >> the semantics of the x86 programming language that reaches the >> behavior of the directly executed D(D) > > Why is that contingent on anyone but the programmer who claims to be > able to write such a decider? > > >> The first six steps of this mapping are when instructions >> at the machine address range of [00000cfc] to [00000d06] >> are simulated/executed. >> >> After that the behavior of D correctly simulated by H diverges >> from the behavior of D(D) because the call to H(D,D) by D >> correctly simulated by H cannot possibly return to D. > > Which just shows that H can not actually correctly simulate all of the > behavior of the input, but it always gives up and just guesses at an > answer, which is wrong. > >> >> _D() >> [00000cfc](01) 55          push ebp >> [00000cfd](02) 8bec        mov ebp,esp >> [00000cff](03) 8b4508      mov eax,[ebp+08] >> [00000d02](01) 50          push eax       ; push D >> [00000d03](03) 8b4d08      mov ecx,[ebp+08] >> [00000d06](01) 51          push ecx       ; push D >> [00000d07](05) e800feffff  call 00000b0c  ; call H >> [00000d0c](03) 83c408      add esp,+08 >> [00000d0f](02) 85c0        test eax,eax >> [00000d11](02) 7404        jz 00000d17 >> [00000d13](02) 33c0        xor eax,eax >> [00000d15](02) eb05        jmp 00000d1c >> [00000d17](05) b801000000  mov eax,00000001 >> [00000d1c](01) 5d          pop ebp >> [00000d1d](01) c3          ret >> Size in bytes:(0034) [00000d1d] >> >> >> >>> D calls H, which by definition terminates. From its return value we fork >>> to either enter an endless loop or halt. Then H (which is not allowed to >>> simulate D if that doesn't halt) gives the result we just used to fork. >>> >> > ONLY addressing V3 -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer