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From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: key error in all the proofs --- Mike's correction of Joes
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2024 11:13:57 +0300
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On 2024-08-15 13:18:06 +0000, olcott said:

> On 8/15/2024 2:01 AM, joes wrote:
>> Am Wed, 14 Aug 2024 16:08:34 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>> On 8/14/2024 3:56 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
>>>> On 14/08/2024 18:45, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 8/14/2024 11:31 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>> Am Wed, 14 Aug 2024 08:42:33 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>> On 8/14/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-08-13 13:30:08 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>> On 8/13/2024 6:23 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 8/12/24 11:45 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> *DDD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its* *own
>>>>>>>>>>> "return" instruction final halt state, thus never halts*
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Which is only correct if HHH actuallly does a complete and
>>>>>>>>>> correct emulation, or the behavior DDD (but not the emulation of
>>>>>>>>>> DDD by HHH)
>>>>>>>>>> will reach that return.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> A complete emulation of a non-terminating input has always been a
>>>>>>>>> contradiction in terms.
>>>>>>>>> HHH correctly predicts that a correct and unlimited emulation of
>>>>>>>>> DDD by HHH cannot possibly reach its own "return" instruction
>>>>>>>>> final halt state.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> That is not a meaningful prediction because a complete and
>>>>>>>> unlimited emulation of DDD by HHH never happens.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> A complete emulation is not required to correctly predict that a
>>>>>>> complete emulation would never halt.
>>>>>> What do we care about a complete simulation? HHH isn't doing one.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> Please go read how Mike corrected you.
>>>>> 
>>>> Lol, dude...  I mentioned nothing about complete/incomplete
>>>> simulations.
>>> *You corrected Joes most persistent error*
>>> She made sure to ignore this correction.
>> Would you please point it out again?
>> 
> 
> I did in the other post.
> 
>>>> But while we're here - a complete simulation of input D() would clearly
>>>> halt.
>>> A complete simulation *by HHH* remains stuck in infinite recursion until
>>> aborted.
>> Yes, HHH can't simulate itself completely. I guess no simulator can.
>> 
> 
> A simulating termination analyzer can correctly simulate
> itself simulating an input that halts.
> 
> void DDD()
> {
>    HHH(DDD);
>    return;
> }

That DDD halts if HHH halts but at least your HHH fails to simulate
itself with DDD as parameter to its return. Perhaps it can simulate

void XXX() {
  HHH(YYY);
}

void YYY() {
  Output("Hello!");
}

-- 
Mikko