Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: DDD emulated by HHH --- (does not refer to prior posts) Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 07:12:09 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 74 Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2024 14:12:10 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="fac62f6084ae4030e082c32c7cff718b"; logging-data="3643776"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18iutAv1CpCrqiTtW8Btmc4" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:HYNgktMWcG2HCBmUOQkj7g1SZak= In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 3823 On 8/28/2024 4:09 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: > Op 27.aug.2024 om 14:44 schreef olcott: >> On 8/27/2024 3:38 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>> Op 27.aug.2024 om 04:33 schreef olcott: >>>> This is intended to be a stand-alone post that does not >>>> reference anything else mentioned in any other posts. >>>> >>>> void DDD() >>>> { >>>>    HHH(DDD); >>>>    return; >>>> } >>>> >>>> _DDD() >>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping >>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping >>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04 >>>> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp >>>> [00002183] c3         ret >>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>>> >>>> When we assume that: >>>> (a) HHH is an x86 emulator that is in the same memory space as DDD. >>>> (b) HHH emulates DDD according to the semantics of the x86 language. >>>> >>>> then we can see that DDD emulated by HHH cannot possibly get past >>>> its own machine address 0000217a. >>>> >>> >>> >>> Yes, we see. In fact DDD is not needed at all. >> >> A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal >> fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under >> discussion... >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man > > Apparently you do not even understand the English that is used to > describe the straw man fallacy. > Or are trying to distract the attention from the fact that DDD is not > needed is a simple truism, a tautology in your terms? > When 100% of the whole point is for HHH to correctly determine whether or not DDD would stop running if not aborted *IT IS RIDICULOUSLY STUPID TO SAY THAT DDD IS NOT NEEDED* Acting ridiculously stupid when on is not stupid at all cannot be reasonably construed as anything besides a sadistic head game. >> >>> In the following program >>> >>>         int main() { >>>           return HHH(main); >>>         } >>> >>> HHH cannot possibly simulate itself up to the end of itself. Still >>> HHH halts, which proves that there is an end. The only conclusion is, >>> that the simulation is incomplete and therefore incorrect. >>> Further it is incorrect to think that the fact that the simulation >>> halts too soon is an indication for non-halting behaviour. The >>> analysis of that 'special condition' is the real problem, not the >>> partial incorrect simulation. >> >> -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer