Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.szaf.org!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: RonO Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: Re: California Dairy herds positive for the dairy virus Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2024 11:06:30 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 182 Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: References: <_8-cncGNHsMsZnf7nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com> Reply-To: rokimoto557@gmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="70588"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:yGdI/zo7N7eSB/d3BEQ+L9d1R78= Return-Path: X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id 415F722986F; Mon, 23 Sep 2024 12:06:27 -0400 (EDT) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 097D822978C for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2024 12:06:25 -0400 (EDT) by moderators.individual.net (Exim 4.98) for talk-origins@moderators.isc.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (envelope-from ) id 1sslaF-00000002WkZ-2cnc; Mon, 23 Sep 2024 18:06:43 +0200 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.eternal-september.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D4985F879 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2024 16:06:30 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: name/9D4985F879; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com id 486AFDC01A9; Mon, 23 Sep 2024 18:06:30 +0200 (CEST) X-Injection-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2024 18:06:30 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX1+y+omi6dNgUUgPGfei2jruPRECcg/Nlf8= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN, FREEMAIL_FROM,FREEMAIL_REPLYTO_END_DIGIT,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,URI_DOTEDU autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 * 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was * blocked. See * http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block * for more information. * [URIs: theguardian.com] * 0.2 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level * mail domains are different * -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record * 0.0 SPF_HELO_NONE SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record * 0.0 DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED No valid author signature, adsp_override * is CUSTOM_MED * 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail * provider * [rokimoto557[at]gmail.com] * 1.0 FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD 'From' gmail.com does not match 'Received' * headers * 0.2 FREEMAIL_REPLYTO_END_DIGIT Reply-To freemail username ends in * digit * [rokimoto557[at]gmail.com] * 0.0 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and * EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different * 1.6 FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA Forged mail pretending to be from Mozilla * 1.0 URI_DOTEDU Has .edu URI * 1.2 NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED ADSP custom_med hit, and not from a mailing * list smtp.eternal-september.org Bytes: 13015 On 9/22/2024 9:15 AM, RonO wrote: > On 9/21/2024 9:04 AM, RonO wrote: >> On 9/19/2024 7:52 AM, RonO wrote: >>> On 9/18/2024 12:58 PM, RonO wrote: >>>> On 9/18/2024 11:11 AM, *Hemidactylus* wrote: >>>>> RonO wrote: >>>>>> On 9/17/2024 1:18 PM, x wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>> [snip] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ok.  Sorry to have implied that about a joke. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What is going on with the flu strains with a 50% fatality rate? >>>>>> >>>>>> There is an Asian and European H5N1 strain of avian influenza that >>>>>> has >>>>>> been responsible for over 800 human deaths (50% mortality of known >>>>>> infected humans).  Infection is not a common occurrence and requires >>>>>> contact with infected birds.  Wild bird migration brought this >>>>>> virus to >>>>>> North America, but the virus that infected the Dairy cattle was a >>>>>> recombinant with another North American avian influenza strain.  It >>>>>> inherited the H5 and N1 antigen genes from the Asian virus, but >>>>>> around >>>>>> half of it's genome comes from another influenza virus.  This is >>>>>> likely >>>>>> why it doesn't have a 50% mortality when it infects humans.  So far >>>>>> humans have only exhibited mild symptoms, but the worry is that the >>>>>> virus will mutate to better infect humans and become more pathogenic. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is that something involving low numbers of infected and statistics >>>>>>> or is that something real about the nature of those flu strains? >>>>>> >>>>>> As noted above the Asian H5N1 has infected fewer than 2,000 people in >>>>>> Asia and Europe, but over 800 of them died due to the infection. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does that involve differences in antigen presentation? >>>>>> >>>>>> Due to the recombinant half, the dairy virus is antigenically >>>>>> different >>>>>> than the Asian H5N1, but initially the H5 antigen was neutralized by >>>>>> related H5 virus that the CDC had already banked for vaccine use. >>>>>> One >>>>>> thing that they are not making a big deal about is that the latest >>>>>> human >>>>>> case (without known animal contact) in Missouri has a couple of amino >>>>>> acid substitutions relative to the original dairy H5 and the >>>>>> Missouri H5 >>>>>> can avoid the existing H5 antibodies, and those antibodies are now >>>>>> 10 to >>>>>> 100 times less effective in neutralizing an infection.  This just >>>>>> means >>>>>> that they have to start working up a vaccine strain with the new H5 >>>>>> mutations. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Do they have symptoms similar to other flu but more severe >>>>>>> or can they have vastly different symptom sets in comparison >>>>>>> with other colds or flus? >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Most of the humans infected with the dairy virus have mild >>>>>> symptoms with >>>>>> most of them having only itchy eyes.  The virus was not isolated from >>>>>> nasal swabs so the infection had not become respiratory.  Virus >>>>>> has been >>>>>> isolated from eye swabs of infected individuals.  The latest Missouri >>>>>> example is different.  Apparently the virus was detected in samples >>>>>> taken normally to check for respiratory infections, but the >>>>>> patient was >>>>>> not exhibiting the normal respiratory symptoms.  Instead the >>>>>> patient had >>>>>> "nausea, vomiting, diarrhea and weakness".  The CDC has noted that >>>>>> these >>>>>> are not the normal respiratory symptoms of influenza, but they do not >>>>>> note that these are symptoms that have been associated with the H5N1 >>>>>> Asian virus with a high human mortality.  The CDC seems to have >>>>>> the goal >>>>>> of downplaying how bad things probably are. >>>>>> >>>>> So the common misnomer of “stomach flu” applied to norovirus would >>>>> actually >>>>> apply in cases where influenza infection actually does result in >>>>> digestive >>>>> symptoms? >>>> >>>> Yes, influenza virus can be associated with "stomach flu" symptoms, >>>> and as I noted the H5N1 avian influenza virus that has a high >>>> mortality in humans has produced these symptoms. >>>> >>>> https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22401-bird-flu >>>> >>>> Until the Missouri case the dairy H5N1 had not been associated with >>>> those symptoms, but they have occurred in the high mortality cases >>>> of humans infected by the Asian strain of H5N1. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> So if someone says “I have stomach flu” I would now reply “I sure hope >>>>> you’re wrongly calling noro that, because actual H5 stomach flu is >>>>> much >>>>> worse!” >>>>> >>>> >>>> The Asian H5N1 has a 50% mortality in humans.  As I have noted the >>>> Dairy H5N1 is a recombinant and around half of it's genome comes >>>> from another avian influenza virus.  The Dairy H5N1 had only been >>>> associated with mild symptoms until the Missouri case, and the CDC >>>> is trying to claim that the Missouri patients symptoms were due to >>>> something else other than the dairy virus.  They are probably wrong >>>> because another person (close contact of the hospitalized patient) >>>> exhibited the same symptoms but was never tested. >>>> >>>> Ron Okimoto >>> >>> What should be noted on TO is that the CDC is trying to downplay how ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========