Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Tom Elam Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy Subject: Re: The trip to France, Germany and Switzerland Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2024 22:46:39 -0400 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 252 Message-ID: References: <424778542.747713595.349427.recscuba_google-huntzinger.com@news.eternal-september.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2024 04:46:39 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="e499476aa9c254692196646b4a9a330e"; logging-data="59063"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/lxSDsBg2QlEmgI+5lsB2e8JUBY3MAI3E=" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:hiRes7Z1PhXT8RyoGuxxZWa/eSk= In-Reply-To: <424778542.747713595.349427.recscuba_google-huntzinger.com@news.eternal-september.org> Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 13260 On 9/10/2024 10:18 PM, -hh wrote: > Tom Elam wrote: >> On 9/7/2024 9:13 AM, -hh wrote: >>> On 9/6/24 1:07 PM, -hh wrote: >>>> On 9/6/24 11:12 AM, Tom Elam wrote: >>>>> On 9/1/2024 10:27 AM, -hh wrote: >>>>>> On 8/31/24 5:13 PM, Tom Elam wrote: >>>>>>> On 8/30/2024 9:38 AM, -hh wrote: >>>>>>>> On 8/30/24 9:15 AM, Tom Elam wrote: >>>>>>>>> To sum it up, fun but not as much as we thought it might be. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That happens.  On our own last trans-Atlantic outing, we both >>>>>>>> caught some sort of not-CoVid bug around ten days in, which was >>>>>>>> unpleasant. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Arriving Paris on time we elected to take a taxi to the hotel. >>>>>>>>> Given it was 4 of us the taxi was not that much more than the >>>>>>>>> train/Metro and a lot less hassle. The hotel transfer was on us >>>>>>>>> as we arrived several days before the Viking tour started. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Price break on four makes it worth doing AFAIC, even before >>>>>>>> considering your later comment about your travel companion's lower >>>>>>>> physical shape. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Took our friends to see some museums, the tower level 3, other >>>>>>>>> spots, and had some incredible meals. However, the friends are >>>>>>>>> not in the best physical shape and that limited our options. We >>>>>>>>> traveled by Metro, Uber, taxi and RATP. They were fascinated by >>>>>>>>> the Notre Dame crypt, Montmarte and Musee D'Orsay. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've really enjoyed the Orsay; its also a nice place to plan >>>>>>>> taking a lunch break, in the cafe that's "inside" of the clock face. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The tower experience was slightly compromised by rain and poor >>>>>>>>> visibility, but at that point we had no other options for another >>>>>>>>> day. The just-concluded Olympic games had a few streets closed >>>>>>>>> and the Champ de Mars still occupied by venues and blocked off. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Leaving Paris by Viking bus via the Luxembourg American cemetery >>>>>>>>> we arrived the Viking ship at Trier. Spent a week+ on board, >>>>>>>>> visited some Moselle/Rhine River towns in Germany and France. A >>>>>>>>> WWII buff, I was amazed the the Allies ever made it across the >>>>>>>>> part of Moselle valley we saw. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I learned awhile back that my father did one of those Mosel >>>>>>>> crossings, somewhat proximate to the town of Zell, if I recall >>>>>>>> correctly.  I understand that the river looks somewhat different >>>>>>>> today, as the dam system for ship navigation has changed over the >>>>>>>> decades (less current; possibly slightly higher average water >>>>>>>> levels too). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Viking's U.S. marketing portrays the company's river cruises as >>>>>>>>> exceptional. In our experience with prior European river cruises >>>>>>>>> they are not. The ship needed some cosmetic refurb, on day 1 a >>>>>>>>> "technical issue" delay caused us to miss our first stop, and the >>>>>>>>> food and crew service was very good, but not great. We also had a >>>>>>>>> few tour guides that did not speak great English. My wife had to >>>>>>>>> assist one with translating the excellent French of a local >>>>>>>>> vineyard owner. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't recall the details why we skipped using Viking in EU, but >>>>>>>> we've had good success with Uniworld and AMA Waterways.  One >>>>>>>> trade- off for comparing these two is that Uniworld had free DIY >>>>>>>> laundry onboard (helps lighten the bags) but AMA had better wines >>>>>>>> & wine stewards at dinner. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On the other hand we had a medical emergency that led to an >>>>>>>>> unplanned stop. It was handled well and did not cause any issues >>>>>>>>> for the schedule. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Arriving Basel we did the ship's included city tour that was very >>>>>>>>> well done. That afternoon we departed for Zurich, toured that >>>>>>>>> city center for a day and a half by tram with a lake boat ride >>>>>>>>> thrown in, and had a great meal on the last evening. Jolly good fun. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There's a traditional swiss restaurant that I'd like to get back >>>>>>>> to in Zurich, IIRC, not far from the Fraümunster: a good spot for >>>>>>>> Rösti. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Had a bit of a tram experience. The hotel was a few miles west of >>>>>>>>> the lake and city center. Departing the hotel on line 4 for our >>>>>>>>> dinner the tram stopped after about 10 minutes and it was >>>>>>>>> announced that there had been an accident ahead involving a tram >>>>>>>>> and car. Line 4 was being delayed and diverted. Almost all the >>>>>>>>> passengers left the tram. Two young locals offered to show us how >>>>>>>>> to get to our destination. We followed their instructions and >>>>>>>>> arrived via a different route with minimal delay. Could have >>>>>>>>> figured that out ourselves but their assistance was very helpful. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Things like that happen.  Fortunately, you weren't time-stressed >>>>>>>> such as heading to the airport for a departure flight.  Have had >>>>>>>> that happen with a train issue in Belgium. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Flights back through Philly were both on time. Got to experience >>>>>>>>> the 787 for the first time too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> IIRC, the 787's Polaris is a bit more roomy than on their 757 >>>>>>>> version. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Next year? I'm voting for 2 weeks in southern/western France via >>>>>>>>> rental car. The wife has veto power but there is a still lot we >>>>>>>>> have not seen. And Hugh, I checked with National. My age is not >>>>>>>>> an issue for them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Been meaning to get around to a "drive around" in FR as well: >>>>>>>> several different directions though (Normandy, Mont-Saint-Miche, >>>>>>>> Bordeaux, Chateaus, etc). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Plus one probably unknown to Americans sight is the city of >>>>>>>> Bourges, as there's a huge cathedral there that gets compared to >>>>>>>> Notre Dame (but without crowds), plus an evening walk through its >>>>>>>> old timbered houses section is nice: tastefully lit.  A single >>>>>>>> overnight is adequate; figure it as 3.5+hrs (175mi) drive due >>>>>>>> south of Paris. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And on the rental car, the important thing here is that the risk >>>>>>>> of age restrictions is now on your checklist to verify in advance, >>>>>>>> instead of getting blindsided at the last minute by it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -hh >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We ate in that same D'Orsey restaurant. Much nicer than the small >>>>>>> snack bar on the ground floor. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think the onboard AMA experience is every bit as good as Viking. >>>>>>> But their excursions are better and the cabins a bit larger. My >>>>>>> take is that Viking has become so big that with multiple ships in a >>>>>>> port as seemed to happen frequently they have issues with smaller >>>>>>> places some of the AMA excursions we liked. Example - the small >>>>>>> music museum at Rudesheim. I also remember that the guides were >>>>>>> better and we had more free time in port. >>>>>> >>>>>> FWIW, some of this also depends on which river you're on, as the >>>>>> ships on the Rhine have grown in size which limits where they can dock. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I just today watched a YouTube on touring France that may change my >>>>>>> mind a bit about next year. >>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RdNGT1jz8 >>>>>> >>>>>> [rearraging] >>>>>> >>>>>>> We have done 2 weeks in Normandy/Brittany and about the same in >>>>>> Paris >>>>>>> plus 2 trips that took us to the south coast. Time to branch out. >>>>>>> Massif Central, Loire Valley and Alsace are high on my list. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, there's a huge number of regions in France that US tourists are >>>>>> utterly unaware of.  There's some pretty wild scenery/canyons >>>>>> someplace that I can't recall at the moment.  I think I could easily >>>>>> do 5-6 trips, not too much unlike we've already done in Germany. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Taking the TGV to a city then renting the car if you need it could >>>>>>> be a lot of fun, even if a bit more expensive. Thoughts? >>>>>> >>>>>> We used the TGV to go from Paris (Gare de l’Est) to ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========