Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Paul S Person Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.strips,rec.arts.sf.written Subject: Re: Pearls Before Swine: Rat The Luddite Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2024 09:07:39 -0700 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 102 Message-ID: <4767bjtvgnaqrgg8sb0uaun8uk24tfhdd0@4ax.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2024 18:07:43 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="c68665f033c6b56e222390e70dfe0694"; logging-data="3360867"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18E9+bSBpPHj09k3qcO+l7HMlhUIxQePc8=" User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272 Cancel-Lock: sha1:BTdVD/wL9XhCbpiiN/qLXJInrsI= Bytes: 5314 On Tue, 06 Aug 2024 08:51:17 -0700, Paul S Person wrote: >On Tue, 06 Aug 2024 21:40:02 +1000, Mad Hamish > wrote: > >>On Tue, 6 Aug 2024 16:25:08 +1200, Your Name >>wrote: >> >>>On 2024-08-06 03:14:09 +0000, Bobbie Sellers said: >>>> On 7/7/24 05:38, Christian Weisgerber wrote: >>>>> On 2024-07-07, Your Name wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>> LED bulbs are largely a scam for bulb makers to stuff more money = into >>>>>> their pockets. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Here's some realistic numbers: I replace a 40 W incandescent bulb >>>>> with a LED one. Aldi middle isle, 2 euros. Residental power is >>>>> about 0.40 euros/kWh here, so the bulb will have paid for itself = once >>>>> it has saved 2/0.40 =3D 5 kWh. It produces the same illumination = at >>>>> 1/10 of the power of the incandescent, so it saves 40 - 40/10 =3D = 36 W. >>>>> 5000 Wh / 36 W =3D 140 h, so if used one hour each day, it will = have >>>>> paid for itself in under five months. If it eventually dies after >>>>> 10,000 hours instead of a promised 30,000, so be it. >>>>>=20 >>>>> You can plug in numbers that are applicable to your situation and >>>>> in your part of the world. >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> That is theoretical saving. Down at the Power Company the >>>> receipts are down due to power saving so to pay for maintenance >>>> and emergency repair service they must raise the price of your >>>> power. This is what happened in California at least in the >>>> San Francisco Bay Area and the Pacific Gas and Electric Company >>>> is now mainly a power distribution company and they are putting >>>> lines under ground now in sensitive areas which we are helping >>>> to pay for. As well as Battery Farms to save all the wind & solar >>>> power generated while the sun is shining and wind is blowing for >>>> those times we call night. >>>> And if stops some wild fires in sensitive areas >>>> then it will be worth the additional cost because the day >>>> after the sky turns red with smoke it comes down to where >>>> we must breath. >>>>=20 >>>> bliss >>> >>>Yep. and none of that new greeny nonsense, including LED bulbs, are=20 >>>actually any better for the environment than the old versions anyway.=20 >>>So it's simply a waste of money "look good" promotional exercise. >>> >>No doubt you actualy have figures to prove that assertion is >>correct... > >It has been noted here already that the power saved by LCDs/LEDs is >power made available for other uses (bitcoin mining and, I should >think, EV charging and even heat pumps) so a lot of the power "saved" >isn't saved at all, just repurposed. > >However, LEDs have the advantage over LCDs of being disposable in the >landfill (ie, put in the trash as opposed to having to be dropped off >at special locations) when they stop working. Well, if that /is/ an >advantage, of course. And both have the advantage over incandescents >that they work a lot longer. > >As to utility rates and improvements -- you get what you pay for. > >That's an /optimistic/ statement, of course. > >But it is true that only thieves try to get without paying. The responses suggest some followup: the local official website explains: =46luorescent tubes and CFLs are banned from the garbage because they contain mercury, which is highly toxic.=20 It also lists the bulbs that can go into the garbage: Incandecent, LED, Halogen, LED commercial downlights and Xenon light bulbs Apparently, LEDs etc have no mercury. CFLs can be picked up for $5 ("Limit: two 1-gallon bags per collection for single family residence"), or taken to a special location for free (up to 10) recycling (the latter includes tubes). Nothing about CFLs being "electronics", which also have special rules/locations/pickups. But whatever works. --=20 "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino, Who evil spoke of everyone but God, Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"