Path: ...!news.nobody.at!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Cursitor Doom Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design,us.politics Subject: Re: kids these days Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2024 16:40:18 +0100 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 202 Message-ID: References: <2h0jfjhlq7ic02h5f72a3ibsksv5mkg6aj@4ax.com> <2stkfjph6d7s5h50hafmsia5ep7209ds3e@4ax.com> <3i9lfj57mhfe657c5mcbd3mmap61q4m1ik@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2024 17:40:19 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="befe3a24877ef5311303284f03fdebbd"; logging-data="2417190"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19CgEmXH4J/a9//iYoxvXw/ZBaNyCRQG0g=" User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272 Cancel-Lock: sha1:oMTHDAbKHjSUUhKmnhXIqHC9KKQ= Bytes: 11832 On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 14:35:52 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: >On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 14:30:48 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom > wrote in <3i9lfj57mhfe657c5mcbd3mmap61q4m1ik@4ax.com>: > >>On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:35:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>wrote: >> >>>On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:05:37 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>> wrote in <2stkfjph6d7s5h50hafmsia5ep7209ds3e@4ax.com>: >>> >>>>On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:31:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>>>wrote: >>>> >>>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:49:25 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>> wrote in : >>>>> >>>>>>On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:04:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>>>>>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:41:36 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>>>>>> wrote in <2h0jfjhlq7ic02h5f72a3ibsksv5mkg6aj@4ax.com>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>>>>>>>> wrote in : >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>>>>>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>>>>>>>> wrote in : >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Oh. I just hired one. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>There is a lot of truth in that article. >>>>>>>>>>>I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing >>>>>>>>>>>But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff >>>>>>>>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table. >>>>>>>>>>>One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff.. >>>>>>>>>>>and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and >>>>>>>>>>>a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up >>>>>>>>>>>with, >>>>>>>>>>>build proto circuits. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed, >>>>>>>>>>>and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort >>>>>>>>>>>of >>>>>>>>>>>thing), the works. >>>>>>>>>>>As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun. >>>>>>>>>>>Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room >>>>>>>>>>>I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap >>>>>>>>>>>to sync some remote location, >>>>>>>>>>>turned out those were hidden under the floor boards .. >>>>>>>>>>>Did not they tell you that? >>>>>>>>>>> (Must have missed that :-) ). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>It all depends,. >>>>>>>>>>>Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>>>>>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>>>>>>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>>>>>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>>>>>>>not to hire them. :-) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Yes I did read that posting >>>>>>>>>Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help. >>>>>>>>>to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts >>>>>>>>>then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it >>>>>>>>>Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed... >>>>>>>>>And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high >>>>>>>>>value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example. >>>>>>>>>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that >>>>>>>>>and the temperature and light intensity... >>>>>>>>>for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on... >>>>>>>>>So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves. >>>>>>>>>An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and >>>>>>>>>resistors. >>>>>>>>>And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value. >>>>>>>>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal, >>>>>>>>> And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See >>>>>>>>>Imagine 2 1k resistors, one wire-wound, the other metal flim, >>>>>>>>>The wire-wound would work as inductor for RF, so would some small metal ones with some turns on it.. >>>>>>>>>And then there are tolerances, simple maybe for 2 resistors from the same batch >>>>>>>>>but tolerances, sometimes a silver or gold band will give a clue >>>>>>>>>will change the outcome. >>>>>>>>>So as the saying goes: "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated" >>>>>>>>>Opps, composite carbon reisors maye aso be sensitve to moisture? And maybe pressue? >>>>>>>>>Those would often go high in teefee sets... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Jan, you're massively over-complicating this! :-) The resistors in my >>>>>>>>example are both 1k so it's half the supply rail. But you knew that >>>>>>>>anyway. >>>>>>>>The answers you gave show that you know your subject. Unfortunately, >>>>>>>>as we know from what John's stated here before, the graduates he >>>>>>>>interviews have no idea what the fuck they're doing. The Chinese are >>>>>>>>going to kick our arses if they aren't already. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Oh - and carbon resistors are noisy. And I don't think you mentioned >>>>>>>>the source resistance of the supply. We could go on. And on. And >>>>>>>>on.... But that's not what John asked for. He only wanted a first >>>>>>>>approximation which would be 5 Volts. But that's too much for today's >>>>>>>>grads, it seems. :( >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Sure, but I find it hard to believe, >>>>>>>we had a lab and were required to do measurements etc.. in my school days. >>>>>>>Not only electronics, some mechanics too. >>>>>>>But indeed there is nothing like practical experience, in my school >>>>>>>it was known that only hobbyists would psss the exams... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Electronics is a huge field, on top of that now comes programming.. oh and now AI.. >>>>>>>And ever higher frequencies... ever more software (like peeseebee software for example) >>>>>>>protocols, what not... standarss... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>And in spite of all that : US could do a moon return in the sixties, July 1969 >>>>>>>now they are stuck and need to be saved from the ISS.. >>>>>>>SpaceX just did sent up a rescue mission: >>>>>>> https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy89kz8ge41o >>>>>>> >>>>>>>US IQ is dropping, no empire lasted forever.. >>>>>> >>>>>>What's happening is that the normal distribution is getting wider, and >>>>>>not just in the USA. Some of the fringes are geniuses, and a society >>>>>>benefits from having even a few geniuses. >>>>> >>>>>Look at China >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Being reflexively anti-American is no substitute for thinking. I still >>>>>>think that the USA is the best place to design electronics. >>>>> >>>>>I observe, like I do when I use a scope to see what is happening in a circuit. >>>>>Now is-a-hell hits Jemen.. US weapon factories are having a party, >>>>>you pay more taxes.. >>>>>Bad system. >>>>> >>>>>As your enemies get more powerful and more unite, you are a sitting duck. >>>>>Just a big war industry making war to sell at taxpayer's cost >>>>>making losses, a deficit the greatest on earth and in history. >>>>> >>>>>Should any sane person ADMIRE that disaster? >>>>>Half senile president and an ego tripper criminal as aspiring precedent. >>>>> >>>>>Hide under the table I've heard is the tactics recommended by you leaders. >>>>>? >>>> >>>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg9scNl9h4Q >>> >>>Yep, that is the one :-) >> >>Indeed. But for those of us humans without shells, I'm assured hiding >>under a school desk is equally effective for any nuclear blasts up to >>10 megatons. >> >>> >>> >>>>I couldn't find the version with advert at the end "sponsored by Acme >>>>Cigarettes - the mild smoke for kids" :-) >>> >>>Oops.. >>>Anyways they are all on Fetanyl or something these days? >> >>Yeah, the under 10s are all on Fentanyl and the teenagers have moved >>on to this stuff called 'duster' I gather. I'm told it's 20 times more >>addictive than crack cocaine and Wallmart sells it for $2 a can. Kids >>these days have it all. When I was young, street drugs didn't even >>exist. > >Had to look up 'duster' > https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/air-duster-abuse/air-duster-high/ > ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========