Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Richard Damon Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic Subject: Re: People are still trying to get away with disagreeing with the semantics of the x86 language Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2024 21:24:56 -0400 Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org) Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2024 01:24:56 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: i2pn2.org; logging-data="1719675"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org"; posting-account="diqKR1lalukngNWEqoq9/uFtbkm5U+w3w6FQ0yesrXg"; User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 10798 Lines: 198 On 6/30/24 9:03 PM, olcott wrote: > On 6/30/2024 7:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >> On 6/30/24 8:27 PM, olcott wrote: >>> On 6/30/2024 7:13 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>> On 6/30/24 8:00 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>> >>>>> THIS SEQUENCE CANNOT POSSIBLY RETURN WHY PERSISTENTLY LIE ABOUT IT? >>>>> THIS SEQUENCE CANNOT POSSIBLY RETURN WHY PERSISTENTLY LIE ABOUT IT? >>>>> THIS SEQUENCE CANNOT POSSIBLY RETURN WHY PERSISTENTLY LIE ABOUT IT? >>>>> THIS SEQUENCE CANNOT POSSIBLY RETURN WHY PERSISTENTLY LIE ABOUT IT? >>>>> THIS SEQUENCE CANNOT POSSIBLY RETURN WHY PERSISTENTLY LIE ABOUT IT? >>>>> >>>> >>>> But it does, just after H gives up its simulation. >>>> >>>> You have even show that with a simulation. >>>> >>> >>> Liar Liar Pants on Fire !!! >>> Liar Liar Pants on Fire !!! >>> Liar Liar Pants on Fire !!! >> >> Are you forgetting this message: >> >> On 4/27/21 12:55 AM, olcott wrote: >> Message-ID: >>  > void H_Hat(u32 P) >>  > { >>  >  u32 Input_Halts = Halts(P, P); >>  >  if (Input_Halts) >>  >    HERE: goto HERE; >>  > } >>  > >>  > >>  > int main() >>  > { >>  >  H_Hat((u32)H_Hat); >>  > } >>  > >>  > >>  > _H_Hat() >>  > [00000b98](01)  55                      push ebp >>  > [00000b99](02)  8bec                    mov ebp,esp >>  > >> [00000b9b](01)  51                      push ecx >>  > [00000b9c](03)  8b4508                  mov eax,[ebp+08] >>  > [00000b9f](01)  50                      push eax >>  > [00000ba0](03)  8b4d08                  mov ecx,[ebp+08] >>  > [00000ba3](01)  51                      push ecx >>  > [00000ba4](05)  e88ffdffff              call 00000938 >>  > [00000ba9](03)  83c408                  add esp,+08 >>  > [00000bac](03)  8945fc                  mov [ebp-04],eax >>  > [00000baf](04)  837dfc00                cmp dword [ebp-04],+00 >>  > [00000bb3](02)  7402                    jz 00000bb7 >>  > [00000bb5](02)  ebfe                    jmp 00000bb5 >>  > [00000bb7](02)  8be5                    mov esp,ebp >>  > [00000bb9](01)  5d                      pop ebp >>  > [00000bba](01)  c3                      ret >>  > Size in bytes:(0035) [00000bba] >>  > >>  > _main() >>  > [00000bc8](01)  55                      push ebp >>  > [00000bc9](02)  8bec                    mov ebp,esp >>  > [00000bcb](05)  68980b0000          push 00000b98 >>  > [00000bd0](05)  e8c3ffffff              call 00000b98 >>  > [00000bd5](03)  83c404                  add esp,+04 >>  > [00000bd8](02)  33c0                    xor eax,eax >>  > [00000bda](01)  5d                      pop ebp >>  > [00000bdb](01)  c3                      ret >>  > Size in bytes:(0020) [00000bdb] >>  > >>  > =============================== >>  > ...[00000bc8][001015d4][00000000](01)  55         push ebp >>  > ...[00000bc9][001015d4][00000000](02)  8bec       mov ebp,esp >>  > ...[00000bcb][001015d0][00000b98](05)  68980b0000 push 00000b98 >>  > ...[00000bd0][001015cc][00000bd5](05)  e8c3ffffff call 00000b98 >>  > ...[00000b98][001015c8][001015d4](01)  55         push ebp >>  > ...[00000b99][001015c8][001015d4](02)  8bec       mov ebp,esp >>  > ...[00000b9b][001015c4][00000000](01)  51         push ecx >>  > ...[00000b9c][001015c4][00000000](03)  8b4508     mov  eax,[ebp+08] >>  > ...[00000b9f][001015c0][00000b98](01)  50         push eax >>  > ...[00000ba0][001015c0][00000b98](03)  8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08] >>  > ...[00000ba3][001015bc][00000b98](01)  51         push ecx >>  > ...[00000ba4][001015b8][00000ba9](05)  e88ffdffff call 00000938 >>  > Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation at Machine Address:b98 >>  > ...[00000b98][00211674][00211678](01)  55         push ebp >>  > ...[00000b99][00211674][00211678](02)  8bec       mov ebp,esp >>  > ...[00000b9b][00211670][00201644](01)  51         push ecx >>  > ...[00000b9c][00211670][00201644](03)  8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08] >>  > ...[00000b9f][0021166c][00000b98](01)  50         push eax >>  > ...[00000ba0][0021166c][00000b98](03)  8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08] >>  > ...[00000ba3][00211668][00000b98](01)  51         push ecx >>  > ...[00000ba4][00211664][00000ba9](05)  e88ffdffff call 00000938 >>  > ...[00000b98][0025c09c][0025c0a0](01)  55         push ebp >>  > ...[00000b99][0025c09c][0025c0a0](02)  8bec       mov ebp,esp >>  > ...[00000b9b][0025c098][0024c06c](01)  51         push ecx >>  > ...[00000b9c][0025c098][0024c06c](03)  8b4508     mov eax,[ebp+08] >>  > ...[00000b9f][0025c094][00000b98](01)  50         push eax >>  > ...[00000ba0][0025c094][00000b98](03)  8b4d08     mov ecx,[ebp+08] >>  > ...[00000ba3][0025c090][00000b98](01)  51         push ecx >>  > ...[00000ba4][0025c08c][00000ba9](05)  e88ffdffff call 00000938 >>  > Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped >> >> Above decision was from the call the Halts inside H_Hat, deciding that >> H_Hat(H_Hat) seems to be non-halting, it then returns that answer and >> is processed below: >> >>  > ...[00000ba9][001015c4][00000000](03)  83c408     add esp,+08 >>  > ...[00000bac][001015c4][00000000](03)  8945fc     mov [ebp-04],eax >>  > ...[00000baf][001015c4][00000000](04)  837dfc00   cmp dword >> [ebp-04],+00 >>  > ...[00000bb3][001015c4][00000000](02)  7402       jz 00000bb7 >>  > ...[00000bb7][001015c8][001015d4](02)  8be5       mov esp,ebp >>  > ...[00000bb9][001015cc][00000bd5](01)  5d         pop ebp >>  > ...[00000bba][001015d0][00000b98](01)  c3         ret >>  > ...[00000bd5][001015d4][00000000](03)  83c404     add esp,+04 >>  > ...[00000bd8][001015d4][00000000](02)  33c0       xor eax,eax >>  > ...[00000bda][001015d8][00100000](01)  5d         pop ebp >>  > ...[00000bdb][001015dc][00000098](01)  c3         ret >> >> SEE IT HALTED! >> >>  > Number_of_User_Instructions(39) >>  > Number of Instructions Executed(26567) >> >> >> >> >>> >>>   DDD correctly emulated by HHH calls an emulated HHH(DDD) >>> that emulates its own DDD that calls an emulated HHH(DDD) >>> that is either aborted at some point never returning or >>> hits out-of-memory error never returning >>> >>> >>> >> >> But HHH doesn't "Correctly Emulation" DDD by the definition that >> provides the full behavior. >> >> Since *THE* HHH DOES abort its emulation of *THIS* DDD, then THIS DDD >> will return, just after this HHH has given up its emulation. >> >> You LIE by confusing THIS HHH with another machine you try to also >> call HHH, looking at a DIFFERENT input you deceptively try to also >> call DDD that is different because it has been paired with that other >> HHH. >> >> None of that other behavior matters for THIS DDD. >> >> You are just proving you don't understand the meaning of the words you >> are using, but you MAKE UP fake defintions out of your IGNORANCE and >> lie that they are the right definitions. >> >> >> Sorry, it looks like you are fated for a Hot time in the future. > > Your despicable lying strawman deception may work on fools > I am no fool. > > I had to dumb this down because even the smartest > people here were overwhelmed: > > The call from DDD to HHH(DDD) when N steps of DDD are > correctly emulated by any pure function x86 emulator > HHH at machine address 0000217a cannot possibly return. But that is NOT the "behavior of the input", and CAN NOT BE SO DEFINED. "N Steps", where that N is determined by the decider, make the criteria ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========