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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: Ben thinks the professor Sipser is wrong
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2024 14:17:56 -0400
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On 7/4/24 2:04 PM, olcott wrote:
> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
>      until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
>      stop running unless aborted then
> 
>      H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
>      specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
> </MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
> 
> On 10/14/2022 7:44 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>  > I don't think that is the shell game.  PO really /has/ an H (it's
>  > trivial to do for this one case) that correctly determines that P(P)
>  > *would* never stop running *unless* aborted.
> ...
>  > But H determines (correctly) that D would not halt if it were not
>  > halted.  That much is a truism.
> 
> Ben clearly agrees that the above criteria have been met,
> yet feels that professor Sipser was tricked into agreeing
> that this means that:
>      H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
>      specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
> 
> I spent two years deriving those words that Professor Sipser
> agreed with. It seems to me that every software engineer would
> agree that the second part is logically entailed by the first part.


You mean you WASTED two years and set a trap for your self that you fell 
into.

The problem is that Ben is adopting your definitions that professor 
Sipser is not using.

In particular, for professor Sipser, D must be a program (a turing 
machine equivalent) but I think Ben is seeing that you H is being 
defined to take a TEMPLATE instead of a program.

Another way to look at thins is that H and P are entertwined entities 
and not two seperate programs in the system Ben was commenting about.

For Professor Sipser, H and D are REQUIRED to be independent entities, 
since that is what Computation Theory deals with.

So, the two problems are in completely different domains.