Path: ...!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Fred. Zwarts" Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2024 17:40:21 +0200 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 80 Message-ID: References: <7b6a00827bfcc84e99e19a0d0ae6028ebcdc263c@i2pn2.org> <178edf6a7c5329df35a9af6852ecbd41c0948ea1@i2pn2.org> <168858894febbaa529d1704ea864bbe15cb8f635@i2pn2.org> <211a07c98d1fc183ed3e6c079ec1e883dd45f1cc@i2pn2.org> <623debd817e63a256100bb15fed3af8d4fb969fe@i2pn2.org> <0600a243a3bb843ec505712dc7746d41e0ca66dc@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2024 17:40:23 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="6d34e4518a0045f34950758630129c85"; logging-data="2248471"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+NFgx86krV/uuCuHuxdmnf" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:QwInY5EYIXSNVsiIfIQvh+iVO0A= In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-GB Bytes: 5684 Op 03.jul.2024 om 16:29 schreef olcott: > On 7/3/2024 9:16 AM, joes wrote: >> Am Wed, 03 Jul 2024 08:27:40 -0500 schrieb olcott: >>> On 7/3/2024 6:44 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>> On 7/2/24 11:43 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>> On 7/2/2024 10:23 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>> On 7/2/24 11:07 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 9:35 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>> On 7/2/24 10:03 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 8:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/24 9:32 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 8:25 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/24 9:18 PM, olcott wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>> YOU are just a liar, as proved by the fact that you can not >>>>>>>>>>>> give the Diagonalization proof you claimed you had. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> But I am NOT disagreeing with the x86 language. >>>>>>>>>> Can you point out what fact of it I am disagreing about it? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nope, and x86n emulation is only fully correct if it continues to >>>>>>>> the final end. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Why do you say such ridiculously stupid things that you are are >>>>>>> false? >>>>>> And the only CORRECT EMULATION of that program is to infiniately loop >>>>>> in the emulation. >>>>> Not for a freaking termination analyzer nitwit. >>>> Why do they get to lie? >> Open question. >> >>>>>> Nothing says that you can't make a halt decider work with partial >>>>>> emulation for SOME inputs. But the halt Decider just isn't itself a >>>>>> fully correct emulator. >>>>> You keep stupidly saying that less than an infinite emulation is an >>>>> incorrect emulation. Why do you keep stupidly doing that? >>>> Because it is. Partial emulations only show partial truth, and truth is >>>> the whole truth and nothing but the truth. >>>> BEHAVIOR needs the FULL description of what happens. >>>> >>> Why do you keep lying about this? >>> As soon as HHH has seen a repeating state it has seen enough. >> If the state is actually the same. But the simulated HHH sets a flag >> or something to keep track if it is itself simulating a repetition. <- >> Which it therefore isn’t. >> > > _DDD() > [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping > [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping > [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD > [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) > [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04 > [00002182] 5d         pop ebp > [00002183] c3         ret > Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] > > *This is the repeating state* But not an *infinitely* repeating state. HHH simulates only two cycles. When it aborts itself, the simulated HHH has only one cycle to go. A correct simulation of HHH (by another simulator) shows that it halts. However, HHH is not able to perform a similar correct simulation of itself. > Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:1138cc > [00002172][001138bc][001138c0] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping > [00002173][001138bc][001138c0] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping > [00002175][001138b8][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD > [0000217a][001138b4][0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) > New slave_stack at:14e2ec > [00002172][0015e2e4][0015e2e8] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping > [00002173][0015e2e4][0015e2e8] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping > [00002175][0015e2e0][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD > [0000217a][0015e2dc][0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) > Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped Incorrect conclusion that it detects an infinite Recursion. It is only a two cycle recursion. So, the abort was premature.