Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant? Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2024 07:39:09 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 167 Message-ID: References:

<7b6a00827bfcc84e99e19a0d0ae6028ebcdc263c@i2pn2.org>

MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2024 14:39:10 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="8ec8ab09a9c087279b96ae2505557d8c"; logging-data="2915041"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18z+xwuX/+7oIRBhNCe9AKS" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:14UhWLln7bTTo6NWA+v5EhZ2weI= In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 7822 On 7/4/2024 1:29 AM, Mikko wrote: > On 2024-07-03 13:13:59 +0000, olcott said: > >> On 7/3/2024 2:42 AM, Mikko wrote: >>> On 2024-07-03 01:18:52 +0000, olcott said: >>> >>>> On 7/2/2024 8:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>> On 7/2/24 7:03 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>> On 7/2/2024 5:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>> On 7/2/24 3:46 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 2:17 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>>>> Op 02.jul.2024 om 21:00 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 1:42 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Op 02.jul.2024 om 14:22 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 3:22 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 02.jul.2024 om 03:25 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> typedef void (*ptr)(); >>>>>>>>>>>>>> int HHH(ptr P); >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> void Infinite_Loop() >>>>>>>>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>>>>> HERE: goto HERE; >>>>>>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> void Infinite_Recursion() >>>>>>>>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Infinite_Recursion(); >>>>>>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> void DDD() >>>>>>>>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH(DDD); >>>>>>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> int main() >>>>>>>>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH(Infinite_Loop); >>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH(Infinite_Recursion); >>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH(DDD); >>>>>>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Every C programmer that knows what an x86 emulator is knows >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that when HHH emulates the machine language of Infinite_Loop, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Infinite_Recursion, and DDD that it must abort these >>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulations >>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that itself can terminate normally. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Whether or not it *must* abort is not very relevant. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This the problem that I am willing to discuss. >>>>>>>>>>>> I am unwilling to discuss any other problem. >>>>>>>>>>>> This does meet the Sipser approved criteria. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 10/13/2022> >>>>>>>>>>>> If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its >>>>>>>>>>>> input D >>>>>>>>>>>> until H correctly determines that its simulated D would >>>>>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>>>> stop running unless aborted then >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report >>>>>>>>>>>> that D >>>>>>>>>>>> specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 10/13/2022> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Repeating the same thing that has already been proved to be >>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant does not bring the discussion any further. >>>>>>>>>>> Sipser is not relevant, because that is about a correct >>>>>>>>>>> simulation. Your simulation is not correct. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you disagree with this you are either dishonest >>>>>>>>>> or clueless I no longer care which one. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _DDD() >>>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404 add esp,+04 >>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d pop ebp >>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3 ret >>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> DDD is correctly emulated by HHH which calls an >>>>>>>>>> emulated HHH(DDD) to repeat the process until aborted. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> HHH repeats the process twice and aborts too soon. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You are freaking thinking too damn narrow minded. >>>>>>>> DDD is correctly emulated by any HHH that can exist >>>>>>>> which calls this emulated HHH(DDD) to repeat the process >>>>>>>> until aborted (which may be never). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Only if your definiton of "Correct" includes things that are not >>>>>>> correct. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your problem is you just assume things to exist that don't, >>>>>>> because you don't understand what Truth actually means. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So, where is that Diagonalization proof you said you had to show >>>>> Godel wrong? >>>>> >>>>> Or are you just admitting you LIED about that? >>>>> >>>>>> void DDD() >>>>>> { >>>>>> HHH(DDD); >>>>>> } >>>>>> >>>>>> int main() >>>>>> { >>>>>> HHH(DDD); >>>>>> } >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D >>>>>> until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never >>>>>> stop running unless aborted then >>>>>> >>>>>> H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D >>>>>> specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations. >>>>>> >>>>> 10/13/2022> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Professor Sipser would agree that HHH/DDD meets the above criteria* >>>>>> >>>>> Nope. >>>>> >>>>> Your HHH that returns an answer does NOT "Correctly Simulate" its >>>>> input by the definition of producing the exact results of executing >>>>> the machine represented by it, >>>> >>>> I can see what you fail to understand. Professor Sipser would >>>> not make this same mistake. >>>> >>>> Professor Sipser probably does understand the x86 language. >>> >>> What makes you think so? How can you justify "probably" instead of, say, >>> "pssobly"? >>> >>> The following contains nothing relevant: >>> >>>> Shared-memory implementation of the Karp-Sipser >>>> kernelization process >>>> https://inria.hal.science/hal-03404798/file/hipc2021.pdf >>> >>> >> >> If you make sure to not pay attention than you you >> won't find anything relevant. I searched for ["sipser" "x86"] > > Finding that you present claims without support is relevant enough for me. > Knowledge of the x86 language is 100% complete support. -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer