Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic Subject: Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved criteria is met Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 21:13:53 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 87 Message-ID: References: <87jzidm83f.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <5nSdnSkMN76jIOH7nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@brightview.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 04:13:53 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="d7b6b7ddfe8775f34f568700240d9d1b"; logging-data="2675332"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18sKGRH8x9M+m8FElh/fzd/" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:dl8qJD4G3/ICOwSejhSMp9DwNow= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Bytes: 5332 On 6/26/2024 8:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 6/26/24 9:30 PM, Mike Terry wrote: >> On 27/06/2024 02:15, Mike Terry wrote: >>> On 27/06/2024 01:42, Richard Damon wrote: >>>> On 6/26/24 8:20 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>> On 6/26/2024 6:55 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>> On 6/26/24 7:46 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>> On 6/26/2024 6:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>> On 6/26/24 9:42 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 6/26/2024 6:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 6/25/24 11:42 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> That is not the way that it actually works. >>>>>>>>>>> That the the way that lies are defined. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Source for you claim? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Where is you finite set of steps from the truthmakers of the >>>>>>>>>> system to that claim? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _DDD() >>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55               push ebp      ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec             mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000       push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff       call 000015d2 ; call H0(DDD) >>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404           add esp,+04 >>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d               pop ebp >>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3               ret >>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The call from DDD to H0(DDD) when DDD is correctly emulated >>>>>>>>> by H0 cannot possibly return. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sure it can. I have shown an H0 that does so. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I already told you that example does not count. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I can't keep repeating those details or others >>>>>>> that so far have no idea what an x86 emulator is >>>>>>> will be baffled beyond all hope of comprehension. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> WHy not? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> We have already been over that you know that you cheated. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Nope, since you didn't put in the rule, and if you had it would have >>>> shown that you lied, as if H0 is a pure function then the call to H0 >>>> emulated by H0 needs to have the same behaivor as the direct call to >>>> H0 by main. >>> >>> Incidentally, the nonconformance you're referring to is shown >>> explicitly in the "195 page trace" that PO linked to.  [I.e. the >>> simulated H does not correctly track the code path of the outer H.] >> >> I suppose I should have made clear, that's not simply due to the >> simulated H being aborted.  There is an instruction in H:   [actually, >> in Init_Halts_HH()] >> >> [000012e4] 753b jnz 00001321 >> >> and in outer H control proceeds to 000012e6  [i.e. branch not taken], >> whilein simulated H control proceeds to 00001321  [i.e. branch taken] >> >> >> Mike. >> > > Would need to look closer at the code, but I bet that the simulated > machine is looking into the trace buffer to see if it is simulated or not. > > In effect, it is misusing static memory just like he says isn't allowed. > > The slaves to a UTM either use a portion of the UTMs tape or they can't possibly exist. There is probably a more pure way to encode this. -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer