Path: ...!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: VanguardLH Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android Subject: Re: Which uses less power Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2024 12:21:53 -0500 Organization: Usenet Elder Lines: 123 Sender: V@nguard.LH Message-ID: <2szr1kqz0zk$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> References: <78zxo4y77ds7.dlg@v.nguard.lh> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: individual.net JjTXGfEeoUkDN90GQ5yFmwNn5g2PuTyv8gYHa57nCBArJXlHhc Keywords: VanguardLH,VLH Cancel-Lock: sha1:7D+vwI9+aDxAl0eWfTMOVT3o+FI= sha256:CAMXEsp5w5E+ccfZ+9tA0Kf5xOu4305r8zfC3YAd3SI= User-Agent: 40tude_Dialog/2.0.15.41 Bytes: 7152 "Carlos E.R." wrote: > On 2024-10-23 03:04, VanguardLH wrote: >> Chris wrote: >> >>> sms wrote: >>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote: >>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips? >>>>> >>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output? >>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead? >>>>> >>>>> Any idea? >>>> >>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W. >>>> >>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW. >>>> >>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power. >>> >>> Do you have a source? >> >> Do you to refute? > > I do not refute nor corroborate, so I would like a source either way :-) Me, too. I'd like to know the basis for both claims. Alas, there are so many variables involve with unknown phones and BT/BLE devices employed that the results are unpredictable. BLE devices go into low-power sleep mode when inactive. Batteries in BLE devices are typically much smaller (far less capacity) than the battery in a phone. But that's for BLE devices. Unless you turn it off, does the BT radio in the phone ever go into sleep mode? No, not when the phone itself goes into sleep mode, but if the BT radio alone will go into sleep mode. My reading of the OP's inquiry is that he is asking about power drain on the phone's battery when using its speakers versus using the BT radio in the phone to a BLE device. BT isn't transmitting power, just a signal, but the longer the BT radio is active the more power it consumes assuming the BT radio in the phone ever goes into low-power sleep mode. From what I've found, the BT radio in the phone is either on or off, not in a low-power sleep mode (that's just for BT devices). Since the OP wasn't asking about battery drain on the BT headset device, but on the impact to the phone's battery when using BT, I did find: https://www.seinxon.com/blogs/blog-posts/does-bluetooth-drain-your-battery The article doesn't give a bio on Robert Triggs, or which of his articles is cited. Might be this guy: https://www.soundguys.com/author/roberttriggs/ Note the OP only mentioned "Bluetooth". Not which version of it. He didn't mention his phone, so we cannot lookup what BT versions it supports. We don't which versions of BT the BT headset uses, either. Batteries lose capacity (coloumbs) over time even when not use, but more when in-circuit than sitting on a shelf. Be interesting to know if loss of capacity in the phone's battery from BLE radio usage outstrips the natural drain of the phone's battery. Also remember that it isn't just the BT radio in the phone that is consuming power. The CPU needs power to control the radio and the radio protocol stack. There is also chatter between the BT radio in the phone to the BT device. Once bonded to a BT device, the two endpoints need to keep the channel alive by periodically passing packets even when no traffic is being sent to the endpoints. https://www.link-labs.com/blog/bluetooth-zigbee-comparison That says the BLE radio consumes 10 to 100 mW while traditional BT consumes 1 W: 10 to 100 times difference. Again, we don't know which BT is involved for the OP. It also mentions packets are sent in bursts using BLE, and the BLE device sleeps between bursts (but not if the phone's BLE radio sleeps between bursts). So, then to compare BLE radio power consumption in the phone (to a BLE device) versus using the phone's speaker power consumption, there are several variable when using the speakers, like the volume level at the speaker. Playing at louder volume means more power consumed from the phone's battery. While phone speakers may be rated 1.5 to 3W (for output power), input power would be higher (no speaker is 100% efficient), but again affected by the volume level. However, who listens to music by putting their phone's speaker next to their ear to play at low volume? Earbuds don't need as nearly as much power to produce the same volume level in the ear as opposed to audio from the speaker in the phone. Heavy bass uses more power. More energy to push the cone further. Speaker sensitivity affects power consumption: a lower-power rated speaker that is more efficient can produce the same volume as a higher-power rated but less efficient speaker. Headphones are more energy efficient than speakers, but the OP probably does not have a phone with a headphone jack, and why he asks about BT headphones or ear buds. The bigger the speaker, the more energy to move the larger mass. Design, components, and usage affect power consumption of the speaker(s). Looks like the phone's internal speaker draws about 8 mW, on average, but the variables above can produce varying results. Meanwhile the BLE radio in the phone will consume 10 to 100 mW of power which looks more than for the internal speaker; however, you'd have to know how often are the bursts and sleeps to average out or RMS the power consumption over the time the BLE device is active. There are no bursts with traditional BT, so that type of radio in the phone would likely use nearly or more power than the internal speaker. Besides, how many speakers are there in a phone? One. So forget about stereo (left vs right) spatial differentiation in audio quality. With headphones (via jack or BT), you get stereo. As others mentioned, probably the best way to gauge power consumption to compare internal speakers against whatever BT version is used to the BT/BLE headset is to monitor battery consumption. Play the same media for the same length of time, like 1 to 4 hours, once using the internal speaker (with BT turned off) and another time using the BT/BLE headset. A lot depends on volume level, density of the media, whether BT or BLE is used, efficiency of the speaker and circuit design. Start with a fully charged phone battery each time to obviate the natural drain on the battery even when idle. The OP needs to determine how his unidentified phone with its speakers fairs against using a BT/BLE headset. There are a LOT of variables in a vague scenario.