Path: ...!news.mixmin.net!news2.arglkargh.de!news.karotte.org!news.space.net!news.muc.de!.POSTED.news.muc.de!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: The philosophy of computation reformulates existing ideas on a new basis --- Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2024 16:45:37 -0000 (UTC) Organization: muc.de e.V. Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2024 16:45:37 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: news.muc.de; posting-host="news.muc.de:2001:608:1000::2"; logging-data="94401"; mail-complaints-to="news-admin@muc.de" User-Agent: tin/2.6.3-20231224 ("Banff") (FreeBSD/14.1-RELEASE-p5 (amd64)) Bytes: 3414 Lines: 47 Andy Walker wrote: > On 04/11/2024 14:05, Mikko wrote: >>>>>> [...] The statement itself does not change >>>>>> when someone states it so there is no clear advantage in >>>>>> saying that the statement was not a lie until someone stated >>>>>> it. >>>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Disagree.=C2=A0 There is a clear advantage = in distinguishing those >>>>> who make [honest] mistakes from those who wilfully mislead. >>>> That is not a disagreement. >>> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0I disagree. [:-)] >> Then show how two statements about distinct topics can disagree. > You've had the free, introductory five-minute argument; the > half-hour argument has to be paid for. [:-)] > [Perhaps more helpfully, "distinct" is your invention. One same > statement can be either true or false, a mistake or a lie, depending on > the context (time. place and motivation) within which it is uttered. > Plenty of examples both in everyday life and in science, inc maths. Eg= , > "It's raining!", "The angles of a triangle sum to 180 degrees.", "The > Sun goes round the Earth.". Each of those is true in some contexts, fa= lse > and a mistake in others, false and a lie in yet others. English has cl= ear > distinctions between these, which it is useful to maintain; it is not > useful to describe them as "lies" in the absence of any context, eg whe= n > the statement has not yet been uttered.] There is another sense in which something could be a lie. If, for example, I empatically asserted some view about the minutiae of medical surgery, in opposition to the standard view accepted by practicing surgeons, no matter how sincere I might be in that belief, I would be lying. Lying by ignorance. Peter Olcott is likewise ignorant about mathematical logic. So in that sense, the false things he continually asserts _are_ lies. > --=20 > Andy Walker, Nottingham. > Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music > Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Peerson --=20 Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).