Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder2.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: The philosophy of computation reformulates existing ideas on a
 new basis
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 07:18:43 -0600
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <vgd5vl$1hqli$1@dont-email.me>
References: <vfli1h$fj8s$1@dont-email.me> <vflue8$3nvp8$2@i2pn2.org>
 <vfmd8m$k2m7$1@dont-email.me>
 <bcd82d9f8a987d3884220c0df7b8f7204cb9de3e@i2pn2.org>
 <vfmueh$mqn9$1@dont-email.me>
 <ff039b922cabbb6d44f90aa71a52d8c2f446b6ab@i2pn2.org>
 <vfo95k$11qs1$1@dont-email.me> <vfp8c0$3tobi$2@i2pn2.org>
 <vfpcko$1837o$3@dont-email.me> <vfpish$3u885$2@i2pn2.org>
 <vfpjk2$1976k$1@dont-email.me>
 <086fc32f14bcc004466d3128b0fe585b27377399@i2pn2.org>
 <vfqsui$1jg6i$2@dont-email.me> <vft4om$44tc$2@i2pn2.org>
 <vft944$25aio$6@dont-email.me>
 <11408789ed30027f4bc9a743f353dfa9b4712109@i2pn2.org>
 <QU2dnTAfup30Rr_6nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
 <vfvnml$2ll12$1@dont-email.me> <vfvujg$2mcse$6@dont-email.me>
 <vg2cqm$37cq6$1@dont-email.me> <vg2kfq$38m0h$1@dont-email.me>
 <vg4va2$3ok87$1@dont-email.me> <vg55lv$3pnvp$1@dont-email.me>
 <vg7sdl$cbfk$1@dont-email.me> <vg83vt$dri5$1@dont-email.me>
 <vgcmu4$1eurt$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2024 14:18:45 +0100 (CET)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="ae2b75c532f4106fd16dded08c2e2311";
	logging-data="1632946"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX183u4nGkyRT9JmbYTOkXpa6"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:eFw96T7dJW0E7vdD21SYYJrRVEY=
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 241104-0, 11/3/2024), Outbound message
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <vgcmu4$1eurt$1@dont-email.me>
Bytes: 3815

On 11/5/2024 3:01 AM, Mikko wrote:
> On 2024-11-03 15:13:56 +0000, olcott said:
> 
>> On 11/3/2024 7:04 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2024-11-02 12:24:29 +0000, olcott said:
>>>
>>>> HHH does compute the mapping from its input DDD
>>>> to the actual behavior that DDD specifies and this
>>>> DOES INCLUDE HHH emulating itself emulating DDD.
>>>
>>> Yes but not the particular mapping required by the halting problem.
>>
>> Yes it is the particular mapping required by the halting problem.
>> The exact same process occurs in the Linz proof.
> 
> The halting probelm requires that every halt decider terminates.
> If HHH(DDD) terminates so does DDD. The halting problmen requires
> that if DDD terminates then HHH(DDD) accepts as halting.
> 

void Infinite_Loop()
{
   HERE: goto HERE;
   return;
}

No that is false.
The measure is whether a C function can possibly
reach its "return" instruction final state. Your
measure determines that Infinite_Loop() halts.

> If HHH(DDD) rejects as non-halting then HHH is not a halt decider.
> If HHH(DDD) does not terminate then HHH is not a halt deider.
> 
> It is easy to construct a decider that accpets DDD but that decider
> is not HHH.
> 

*ChatGPT's own words*

*Simplified Analogy*
Think of HHH as a "watchdog" that steps in during real execution
to stop DDD() from running forever. But when HHH simulates DDD(),
it's analyzing an "idealized" version of DDD() where nothing stops the
recursion. In the simulation, DDD() is seen as endlessly recursive, so
HHH concludes that it *would not halt* without external intervention.

https://chatgpt.com/share/67158ec6-3398-8011-98d1-41198baa29f2


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer