Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder2.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy Subject: Re: HHH(DDD) computes the mapping from its input to HHH emulating itself emulating DDD --- anyone that says otherwise is a liar Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2024 13:07:39 -0600 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 97 Message-ID: References: <907b6e45c74720036b5f42c503d76ac426a71c92@i2pn2.org> <622e5aa555a9941d4cdb292d1e3e54e687e7b547@i2pn2.org> <254d3e7be0462ba8225ec0eb4804941ea635770d@i2pn2.org> <031e34cbeacc2a7b5145fd1f25ccee588e8cfb43@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2024 20:07:40 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="9eeddbf0661af45b9b764b78cd434096"; logging-data="1471215"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19c/NJ3sVlNmAv8XdYOVK/D" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:yfwITX5I+onzZyspfOKQdJwZAmw= X-Antivirus-Status: Clean In-Reply-To: X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 241118-6, 11/18/2024), Outbound message Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 5513 On 11/18/2024 1:02 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 11/18/24 1:41 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 11/18/2024 10:16 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>> On 11/17/24 11:04 PM, olcott wrote: >>>> On 11/17/2024 9:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>> On 11/17/24 9:47 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>> On 11/17/2024 8:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>> On 11/17/24 8:46 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>> On 11/17/2024 4:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 11/17/24 4:30 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 11/17/2024 2:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/17/24 1:36 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> void DDD() >>>>>>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD); >>>>>>>>>>>>    return; >>>>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _DDD() >>>>>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04 >>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp >>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret >>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that emulates N >>>>>>>>>>>> to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot possibly >>>>>>>>>>>> reach its "return" instruction final halt state. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This applies to every DDD emulated by any HHH no >>>>>>>>>>>> matter the recursive depth of emulation. Thus it is >>>>>>>>>>>> a verified fact that the input to HHH never halts. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I will also add, that since you have dropped your >>>>>>>>>>> requirements on HHH (or are seeming to try to divorse >>>>>>>>>>> yourself from previous assumptions) there are MANY HHH that >>>>>>>>>>> can complete the emulation, they just fail to be "pure >>>>>>>>>>> functions". >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The damned liar despicably dishonest attempt to get away >>>>>>>>>> with changing the subject away from DDD reaching its final >>>>>>>>>> halt state. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Which is just what YOU are doing, as "Halting" and what a >>>>>>>>> "Program" is are DEFINED, and you can't change it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> YET ANOTHER STUPID LIE. >>>>>>>> A SMART LIAR WOULD NEVER SAY THAT I MEANT >>>>>>>> PROGRAM WHEN I ALWAYS SPECIFIED A C FUNCTION. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But then you can talk about "emulation" or x86 semantics, as both >>>>>>> of those are operations done on PROGRAMS. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> No stupid I provided a published paper that includes the >>>>>> termination analysis of C functions. >>>>> >>>>> Look again at what they process. C functions that include all the >>>>> functions they call. >>>>> >>>> >>>> You stupidly claimed termination analysis is only done >>>> on programs. I proved that you were stupidly wrong on >>>> pages 24-27 of the PDF of this paper. >>>> >>>> Automated Termination Analysis of C Programs >>>> https://publications.rwth-aachen.de/record/972440/files/972440.pdf >>>> >>>> >>> >>> The problem here is you are mixing language between domains. >> >> I said the termination analysis applies to C functions >> you said that it does not. No weasel words around it >> YOU WERE WRONG! >> >> > > Termination analysis applies to FUNCTIONS, FULL FUNCTIONS, ones that > include everything that is part of them. Those things, in computation > theory, are called PROGRAMS. The top of PDF page 24 are not programs defection for brains. https://publications.rwth-aachen.de/record/972440/files/972440.pdf -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer