Path: ...!news.misty.com!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!feeds.news.ox.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: MarkE Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: Re: The tar paradox Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2024 21:22:43 +1100 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 22 Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: References: <88d19a17-ae85-43f6-ae60-88a2f51191d0@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="58857"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:QWXyVT788yZ/W9wbarbnUz2k4S0= Return-Path: X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id 9A175229782; Sat, 14 Dec 2024 05:22:53 -0500 (EST) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27B49229765 for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2024 05:22:51 -0500 (EST) by pi-dach.dorfdsl.de (8.18.1/8.18.1/Debian-6~bpo12+1) with ESMTPS id 4BEAMku3702007 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2024 11:22:46 +0100 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.eternal-september.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F08355F8FF for ; Sat, 14 Dec 2024 10:22:44 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: name/F08355F8FF; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com id 74600DC01A9; Sat, 14 Dec 2024 11:22:44 +0100 (CET) X-Injection-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2024 11:22:44 +0100 (CET) X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX19uK+L+spn9bw6/yukq5gzO+6XFXanufQA= In-Reply-To: <88d19a17-ae85-43f6-ae60-88a2f51191d0@gmail.com> Content-Language: en-US HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,USER_IN_WELCOMELIST, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 smtp.eternal-september.org Bytes: 3563 On 14/12/2024 5:25 pm, erik simpson wrote: > On 12/13/24 9:51 PM, MarkE wrote: >> On 14/12/2024 3:31 pm, erik simpson wrote: >>> Without reproduction tar is what you get for sure.  Nitrogen is high >>> enough concentration cause death by asphyxiation. >> >> No reproduction prebiotically, therefore you're agreeing that the tar >> paradox is an OoL showstopper? >> > I misprinted.  It's not a showstopper if the prebiotic reproduction is > present. It might be very slow or fail at some point.  The important > thing is that it's happening in many places. > What do you mean by "prebiotic reproduction"? Self-replicating naked RNA? An autocatalytic set containing informational polymers? In either case, these are disallowed if the tar paradox is unresolved. And it appears to not only be unresolved, but largely unacknowledged. Your statement "The important thing is that it's happening in many places", is a vague, unsupported assertion, not an argument.