Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: RonB Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy Subject: Re: Intel's co-CEO claims retailers say Qualcomm-powered PCs have high return rates, points to new competitors with Arm chips coming in 2025 Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2024 05:52:44 -0000 (UTC) Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 121 Message-ID: References: <4gf7P.5896$Uup4.1220@fx10.iad> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2024 06:52:44 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="d7a1de35a0347d18502ac70e1d25fc2f"; logging-data="3478165"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19rb3fkP2XPTHBWDPmWKPvB" User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (Linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:aDroYh89MBPhtl68NTNPy5aLClY= Bytes: 8801 On 2024-12-19, CrudeSausage wrote: > Le 2024-12-19 à 03:03, RonB a écrit : >> On 2024-12-18, CrudeSausage wrote: >>> Le 2024-12-18 à 06:09, RonB a écrit : >>>> On 2024-12-17, CrudeSausage wrote: >>>>> Le 2024-12-17 à 15:30, RonB a écrit : >>>>>> On 2024-12-17, CrudeSausage wrote: >>>>>>> Le 2024-12-17 à 03:13, RonB a écrit : >>>>>>>> On 2024-12-16, CrudeSausage wrote: >>>>>>>>> Le 2024-12-16 à 05:27, RonB a écrit : >>>>>>>>>> On 2024-12-15, CrudeSausage wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Le 2024-12-15 à 02:23, RonB a écrit : >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-12-14, CrudeSausage wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Le 2024-12-14 à 10:44, RonB a écrit : >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-12-14, CrudeSausage wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Higher performance per watt which leads to lower power use and therefore >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> improved battery life. Whether Intel and AMD want to admit it or not, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people _do_ want to have a computer which can handle a whole day's work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a single charge and which won't increase electrical bills. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> While I agree that most people want longer battery life for their laptops, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> really don't think the cost of charging a laptop is that big of a concern. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Not to a person who lives in an area where electricity is cheap. >>>>>>>>>>>>> However, it is only going to become more expensive in places like Europe >>>>>>>>>>>>> where its production depend on a resource acquired from Russia. The same >>>>>>>>>>>>> way they switched to fuel-efficient or electric cars to lower their >>>>>>>>>>>>> reliance on gasoline, they are probably going to switch to >>>>>>>>>>>>> energy-efficient machines to reduce their need for electricity altogether. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> If things are getting that dire in Europe they're going to have to learn >>>>>>>>>>>> to live without computers at all. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If this were the 80s and Europe were facing these issues, I imagine that >>>>>>>>>>> either Atari or Commodore would have produced a very efficient computer >>>>>>>>>>> which would only need to be charged once daily. Let's not forget how >>>>>>>>>>> popular the ST and the Amiga were over there while they were failing >>>>>>>>>>> miserably in North America. Because both companies are dead, the most >>>>>>>>>>> likely scenario is that they will move to the efficient machines made by >>>>>>>>>>> Apple or equipped with Qualcomm's processors. I do not think that their >>>>>>>>>>> energy crisis is going to get better anytime soon. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry, but I'm skeptical that the electricity needed to charge a laptop >>>>>>>>>> is that big of a concern, even in Europe. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In that case, you should look at how Germany's economy is tanking, >>>>>>>>> specifically the result of a lack of cheap oil coming in from Russia. >>>>>>>>> You can imagine that the smaller supply of oil will result in electrical >>>>>>>>> production being more expensive and for the power bills to be much >>>>>>>>> higher for the average German. As a result, they are not as likely as >>>>>>>>> they once might have been to buy the powerful PC which requires 800W of >>>>>>>>> power to play a game every hour. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't have to "imagine" that the lack of cheap Russian gas is hurting >>>>>>>> Germany's economy (that's plain to see every day in the international news). >>>>>>>> I'm just having trouble imagining that this is resulting in angst about the >>>>>>>> amount of electricity required to charge a laptop. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If the price you pay for electricity doubles, you are likely to look at >>>>>>> the devices in your house and make changes in the kind of machine you >>>>>>> buy. The promise of charging once a day rather than keeping a machine >>>>>>> plugged is likely to be a benefit to a European. The people of North >>>>>>> America probably won't care as much since power is cheap here. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hypotheticals. I'll remain skeptical that this will be a major issue. >>>>>> (Unless, of course, there is no power at all — which may be a reality in >>>>>> Europe if they keep going down the destructive paths they've chosen. In that >>>>>> case keeping food from spoiling will probably take priority over laptop >>>>>> charging — of any kind). >>>>> >>>>> Only as long as whatever work you do doesn't depend on you having a >>>>> computer. >>>>> >>>>>>>> I purposely use low power laptops and micro desktops because it's all I need >>>>>>>> and I don't like the background sound of fans. These all run Intel CPUs >>>>>>>> (except for the Wyse 5060 thin client desktop — it uses a low power AMD >>>>>>>> CPU). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And, as usual, the standard disclaimer, I don't play Windows' video games or >>>>>>>> use high-end (watt gobbling) GPUs. I'm not sure, though, that ARM chips will >>>>>>>> be running these games in the future. (I guess we'll see.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ARM might, but I don't care to stick around to find out. At best, I >>>>>>> would imagine that ARM will play today's games as well as today's x86-64 >>>>>>> PCs around 2027 or so through some compatibility layer. If it happens >>>>>>> sooner, all the better. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm guessing the power required to run Windows complex video games will not >>>>>> fit in ARM's low-power "wheelhouse." But we'll see. As I've mentioned (many >>>>>> times now) I'm not a game player. >>>>> >>>>> ARM being low-power doesn't mean that it is low-performance. As the >>>>> Apple processors have shown, they're a lot more powerful than x86-64 >>>>> processors on single-core applications. They're only worse on multi-core >>>>> and even then, not by much. ARM basically allows people to have >>>>> performance like they currently have but through much less battery power. >>>> >>>> I'll watch and see what happens. I don't anticipate getting an ARM laptop >>>> (or desktop) in the near future — but then I don't anticipate buying any new >>>> computers at all in the next ten years (or so). >>> >>> I'm trying to hold onto the one I have for as long as possible too, but >>> I know that it's just a matter of time before the keyboard's keys stop >>> working as they should and the parts to fix issue stop being available. >>> When that happens, I'll have no choice but to get another one. >> >> That's another advantage of Dell Latitudes. They made so many of them that >> parts are widely available and cheap. > > True, but those parts will probably only be found in landfills after a > while. The same way that it becomes difficult to find parts for cars > after five years, it becomes hard to find parts for laptops after about > three. I don't know. I've played with a lot of old Dell Latitudes and I've always managed to find the parts I need. -- “Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien