Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Sufficient knowledge of C proves that DD specifies non-terminating behavior to HHH Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2025 06:45:17 -0600 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 104 Message-ID: References: <228a9804d6919149bac728ccf08134ed90db121e@i2pn2.org> <6f15178eda69b13fae9cbfef29acad05c9c6aeb3@i2pn2.org> <1454e934b709b66a0cb9de9e9796cb46fed0425c@i2pn2.org> <274abb70abec9d461ac3eb34c0980b7421f5fabd@i2pn2.org> <2f4f3ffdb308d743324591c52cbe9d73c7b28173@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2025 13:45:18 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="c492ea1606c78cee9e5da7f1d71e9cb2"; logging-data="1280965"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/U7PkpVB6OJisTmk65xUb+" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:fIPno1N4UnHpBdoAIWPOfHI9Tbg= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <2f4f3ffdb308d743324591c52cbe9d73c7b28173@i2pn2.org> X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250210-0, 2/9/2025), Outbound message Bytes: 6315 On 2/10/2025 6:37 AM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 2/10/25 7:02 AM, olcott wrote: >> On 2/10/2025 5:16 AM, joes wrote: >>> Am Sun, 09 Feb 2025 13:54:39 -0600 schrieb olcott: >>>> On 2/9/2025 1:33 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 20:04 schreef olcott: >>>>>> On 2/9/2025 12:54 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 18:00 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 10:50 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 16:18 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 2:13 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 07:10 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2025 3:54 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 08.feb.2025 om 15:47 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2025 3:57 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 08.feb.2025 om 06:53 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2025 7:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/25 8:12 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2025 5:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/25 11:26 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2025 6:20 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/25 10:02 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/2025 8:21 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/25 5:18 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/2025 1:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/25 1:26 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/2025 10:52 AM, Bonita Montero wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 05.02.2025 um 16:11 schrieb olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/5/2025 1:44 AM, Bonita Montero wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 05.02.2025 um 04:38 schrieb olcott: >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which proves that HHH fails to make a correct decision about >>>>>>>>>>>>> DD's halting behaviour. All other methods (direct execution, >>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation by a world class simulator, etc.) show that DD >>>>>>>>>>>>> halts. But HHH fails to see it. Everyone with sufficient >>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding of programming sees that HHH is not correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>> programmed when it aborts one cycle before the simulation >>>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>>> end normally. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The execution trace only shows that HHH is unable to complete >>>>>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>>>> simulation, because HHH is unable to simulate itself. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It turns out that Olcott does not even understand this simple >>>>>>>>> proof >>>>>>>>> that HHH produces false negatives. HHH is unable to simulate >>>>>>>>> itself >>>>>>>>> up to the normal termination. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, in other words, Olcott denies verified facts. >>>>>>> HHH generates false negatives, as is verified in >>>>>>>          int main() { >>>>>>>            return HHH(main); >>>>>>>          } >>>>>>> but he denies it. >>>>>>> He lacks the ability to accept simple verified facts, which he tries >>>>>>> to hide with a lot of irrelevant words. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is a verified fact that main cannot possibly be correctly >>>>>> simulated >>>>>> by HHH until its normal termination. >>>>> >>>>> Indeed, which proves that HHH is unable to simulate itself correctly. >>>> >>>> If this was true then you could point out exactly where HHH is >>>> incorrect. >> >>> HHH is supposed to be a decider, i.e. halt and return the correct value. >>> >> >> The directly executed HHH(DD) always halts and returns a correct >> value as soon as it correctly determines that its input cannot >> possibly terminate normally. > > But that answer ISN'T "correct" becuase the input when run DOES > terminate normally. > typedef void (*ptr)(); int HHH(ptr P); int DD() { int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); if (Halt_Status) HERE: goto HERE; return Halt_Status; } int main() { HHH(DD); } DD simulated by HHH cannot possibly terminate normally. This might not be dead obvious to people that hardly understand the C programming language at all. -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer