Path: ...!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: John B. Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech Subject: Re: Patching TPU innertube Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2024 17:54:03 +0700 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 118 Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2024 11:54:07 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="07e2dc5482d3ff6e3e2f3f0adc0c68fd"; logging-data="2326188"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/UBw3svN2uVG/baU4GwdvIg5JXUNMH7a0=" User-Agent: ForteAgent/7.10.32.1212 Cancel-Lock: sha1:PwBa5g5/RH7ASZrzIuvOjBceFhA= Bytes: 6005 On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 04:08:40 -0500, Catrike Rider wrote: >On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 23:16:08 -0500, Frank Krygowski > wrote: > >>On 12/30/2024 10:28 AM, Zen Cycle wrote: >>> On 12/28/2024 6:35 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>> On 12/28/2024 12:43 PM, zen cycle wrote: >>>>> On 12/27/2024 9:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>> On 12/27/2024 2:01 PM, Zen Cycle wrote: >>>>>>> On 12/27/2024 1:28 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Given what I've read about violins (Stradivarius can't be told >>>>>>>> from modern ones in blind hearing tests) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> horseshit. Someone with training and experience can most certainly >>>>>>> tell the difference in the tonal quality between a Stradivarius and >>>>>>> even a high quality modern violin. >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.science.org/content/article/million-dollar-strads-fall- >>>>>> modern-violins-blind-sound-check >>>>> >>>>> Which doesn't support your claim. You wrote "Stradivarius can't be >>>>> told from modern ones in blind hearing tests", The article states: >>>>> >>>>> "the 82 listeners in the test reported that the new violins projected >>>>> better" >>>>> >>>>> "asked subjects which of the two violins in a pairing they preferred. >>>>> Listeners chose the new violins over the old" >>>>> >>>>> Yes, they could tell the difference. >>>> >>>> This question has been studied many, many times, for decades. The >>>> consistent results are that players or audience can't tell the >>>> difference. >>>> >>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/08/science/a-strad-violinists-cant- >>>> tell.html >>> >>> Paywalled >>> >>>> >>>> https://www.science.org/content/article/elite-violinists-fail- >>>> distinguish-legendary-violins-modern-fiddles >>> >>> "The consistency of results from session to session showed that soloists >>> could definitely distinguish one violin from another. However, the >>> soloists seemed to prefer the new violins, the researchers report online >>> today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences." >>> >>> Yes, they can tell the difference. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/violinists-cant- >>>> tell- the-difference-between-stradivarius-violins-and-new-ones >>> >>> The science.org piece also references the test noted here. >>> >>>> >>>>>>>> and wines (cheap wines really light up pleasure centers in the >>>>>>>> brain if tasters are told the wine is expensive), >>>>>>> >>>>>>> more horseshit. Someone with training and experience can certainly >>>>>>> tell the difference in the flavor profiles, especially if you tried >>>>>>> to dupe them with a Gallo. >>>>>> https://money.com/expensive-price-tag-cheap-wine-brain-placebo-effect/ >>>>> >>>>> Which again doesn't support the claim that people couldn't tell the >>>>> difference. It also doesn't state what qualifications the tasters >>>>> had, if any. I've had crappy $100 bottles of wine and excellent $25 >>>>> bottles of wine. Flavor preference is not the same than as "can't >>>>> tell the difference". >>>> >>>> If "telling the difference" is the same as "succumbing to the placebo >>>> effect," you've got a point. >>> >>> Do you really think it does? >>> >>>> Otherwise, no. >>> >>> we disagree. You're claim was "can't tell the difference". Everything >>> you posted to this point notes differences were detected - maybe not to >>> conventional wisdom, but differences were detected nonetheless. >>OK, I yield. They could tell one violin did not sound precisely like >>another. But they could not tell which was the Strad, which was really >>my point. >> >>IOW, they could not detect the supposedly unduplicable sound quality, >>the factor that causes Strads to sell for millions of dollars more than >>modern violins. > >Even after seeing the election results last november, some people >continue to believe that "studies" based on sample polling produce >accurate data. I read Frankie's violins. If I remember the test correct it was carried out in a hotel room and the test players got to play each instrument for something like 1 minute. My younger brother wanted to be a concert phoniest, practiced from the time he was 5 years old until he graduated from collage. He told me that playing a piano in the front room of your home and playing on the stage of a recital hall was a totally difference sound and in fact if the hall was full or empty made a difference. So what does 1 minute in a hotel room tell you? -- Cheers, John B.