Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.quux.org!news.nk.ca!rocksolid2!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Richard Damon Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: HHH(DDD) computes the mapping from its input to HHH emulating itself emulating DDD --- anyone that says otherwise is a liar Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2024 07:50:11 -0500 Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org) Message-ID: <823171f50b9026448aaeeb432f823b08d28ba457@i2pn2.org> References: <17dd1e646a0cd01f94d9505a9be90fd3925add12@i2pn2.org> <5945fb90e23e2b78a90da47de02bd8e6d8c3ec4d@i2pn2.org> <8c25d20279cfad6662137025897575068e10fe39@i2pn2.org> <7ccf1daed71803939ed9acc5dc0f436e46bbfba2@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2024 12:50:11 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: i2pn2.org; logging-data="311556"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org"; posting-account="diqKR1lalukngNWEqoq9/uFtbkm5U+w3w6FQ0yesrXg"; User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 17021 Lines: 335 On 11/28/24 5:16 AM, olcott wrote: > On 11/27/2024 9:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >> On 11/27/24 8:15 PM, olcott wrote: >>> On 11/27/2024 8:03 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>> On 11/27/24 8:28 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>> On 11/27/2024 6:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>> olcott wrote: >>>>>>> On 11/26/2024 7:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>> On 11/25/24 11:08 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 11/24/2024 11:18 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 11/24/24 9:30 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2024 11:54 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/24 11:54 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2024 9:35 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/24 10:15 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/24 9:04 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2024 1:59 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-22 16:45:52 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/2024 2:30 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-21 15:32:38 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/21/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 22:03:43 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/20/2024 3:53 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-20 03:23:12 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/19/2024 4:12 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-18 20:42:02 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/18/2024 3:41 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "the mapping" on the subject line is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct. The subject line >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not specify which mapping and there is no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> larger context that could >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specify that. Therefore it should be "a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mapping". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-11-17 18:36:17 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> void DDD() >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     HHH(DDD); >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     return; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _DDD() >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH(DDD) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3         ret >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by any encoding of HHH that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulates N >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to infinity number of steps of DDD cannot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reach its "return" instruction final halt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach the instructions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before tha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> return. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach the instruction >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH call. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because it cannot reach return instruction >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of HHH. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This applies to every DDD emulated by any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter the recursive depth of emulation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thus it is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a verified fact that the input to HHH never >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halts. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is too vague to be regareded true or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> false. It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is perfectly possibe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to define two programs and call them DDD and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What a jackass. DDD and HHH have been fully >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specified >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for many months. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They are specified in a way that makes your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "every >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD" and "any DDD" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad (perhaps even incorrect) use of Common >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I specify the infinite sets with each element >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> numbered >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the top of page 2 of my paper. Back in April >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of 2023 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.researchgate.net/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have also specifed that HHH is the program >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GitHub repository. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should I assume that you must be lying about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this because you did not quote where I did this? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, you may assume that I was confused by your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lack of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clarity and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in particular by your bad choice of names. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you clearly state that HHH is not the function HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in your GitHub repository then I needn't to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consider the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possiblity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you just triying to deceive by equivcation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH is one concrete example of an infinite set of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instances >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such that DDD is emulated by HHH N times. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That sentence says that there is only one HHH, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contradicting your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> earlier statement that HHH is a generic term for every >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> member of some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> set. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You seem to be a damned liar: "infinite set of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instances" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You mean you lied when you said "one concrete example"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One element of an infinite set does not say there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no infinite set. Is says there is an infinite set. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But one element of an infinite set is not the infinite set. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are just showing that your logic is based on proven >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incorrect set theory. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IF HHH is an ELEMENT of the set, then it is that one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> element ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========