Path: ...!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!feeds.news.ox.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: MarkE Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: 2nd law clarifications Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2025 17:53:02 +1100 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 18 Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="50103"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:+qllMM3KkoonWLjuWFRQYkwtGIo= Return-Path: X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id 1DD0E229782; Thu, 02 Jan 2025 01:53:14 -0500 (EST) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D3E31229765 for ; Thu, 02 Jan 2025 01:53:11 -0500 (EST) by moderators.individual.net (Exim 4.98) for talk-origins@moderators.isc.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (envelope-from ) id 1tTF4s-00000003E5N-2jNQ; Thu, 02 Jan 2025 07:53:06 +0100 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.eternal-september.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F86A5FD69 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2025 06:53:04 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: name/2F86A5FD69; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com id 9B2F4DC01A9; Thu, 2 Jan 2025 07:53:03 +0100 (CET) X-Injection-Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2025 07:53:03 +0100 (CET) Content-Language: en-US X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX18xI8fRmQwpuRHrqZPXSK1PGXnHqOtMBAg= HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED,RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,USER_IN_WELCOMELIST,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 smtp.eternal-september.org Bytes: 3151 Are these statements correct? Could they be better expressed? Local entropy can decrease in an open system with an input of free energy. Free energy alone is not sufficient to maintain or further decrease low local entropy: an energy capture and transformation mechanism is also needed. Extant life *maintains* low local entropy through its organisation and processes. Evolving life *decreases* low local entropy through the ratcheting mechanism natural selection acting on random mutations in instances where that evolution increases functional complexity and organisation. There is no other known mechanism apart from natural selection that does this. For example, neutral drift alone increases entropy.