Path: ...!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!feeds.news.ox.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: John Harshman Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: Re: Anserifornes existed 67 million years ago Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2025 17:30:19 +0530 Organization: University of Ediacara Lines: 31 Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="75457"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org Return-Path: X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id C0D7D22978C; Thu, 13 Feb 2025 07:00:59 -0500 (EST) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 87FA3229783 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 2025 07:00:57 -0500 (EST) by moderators.individual.net (Exim 4.98) for talk-origins@moderators.isc.org with esmtp (envelope-from ) id 1tiXtl-00000003aJi-25BN; Thu, 13 Feb 2025 13:00:53 +0100 by egress-mx.phmgmt.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB4EE60A70 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 2025 12:00:19 +0000 (UTC) by serv-1.ord.giganews.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ECE0445BA2 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 2025 06:00:20 -0600 (CST) by serv-1.i.ord.giganews.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id 51DC0K3s044473; Thu, 13 Feb 2025 06:00:20 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: serv-1.i.ord.giganews.com: news set sender to poster@giganews.com using -f X-Path: news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail X-NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2025 12:00:19 +0000 Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com X-Original-Complaints-To: abuse@giganews.com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 Bytes: 4122 On 2/12/25 4:51 PM, Ernest Major wrote: > On 12/02/2025 09:03, John Harshman wrote: >> On 2/6/25 8:08 AM, RonO wrote: >>> https://www.science.org/content/article/ancestor-ducks-and-geese- >>> paddled-and-dove-alongside-dinosaurs-antarctica >>> >>> Some researchers claim to have found fossils of the ancestor or >>> extant ducks and geese dated to 67 million years ago in Antarctica. >>> The molecular evidence indicates that the lineage of birds existed >>> for more than 80 million years, but Anseriformes are supposed to have >>> branched off from Galliformes around 70 million years.  Neoaves is >>> supposed to have branched off 67 million years ago.  It looks like >>> the latests molecular dating isn't as exaggerated as previous estimates. >>> >>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07323-1 >>> >> >> I think you may be a little confused about the dating. The supposed >> Antarctic Cretaceous anseriform would be Vegavis, and its identity has >> been strongly questioned. It might in fact be a stem-neornithine. In >> the study, the oldest fossil used to date Anseriformes was Conflicto, >> and that's Paleocene, while Presbyornis and others are younger. >> > > The science.org link reports a recent publication on a Vegavis skull, > which places Vegavis as a (stem?) anseriform. > > https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-08390-0 > Various publications have put it in various places. However, it wasn't used in the cited study.