Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Totally ignoring invalid rebuttals ---PSR--- Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2025 08:06:04 -0600 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 58 Message-ID: References: <4426787ad065bfd0939e10b937f3b8b2798d0578@i2pn2.org> <920b573567d204a5c792425b09097d79ee098fa5@i2pn2.org> <4453bc0c1141c540852ea2223a7fedefc93f564c@i2pn2.org> <85c64c4b79a0c8ff209e41717c9a94e2e9dffc52@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2025 15:06:05 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="ffa3f7c8a9c06536bf515dd54724b6f7"; logging-data="191739"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19UwOlFzsuYW+v1NGWoKSKu" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:2bFYcZBNkE/CSkfMsYXrb1A6uHw= Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250308-2, 3/8/2025), Outbound message In-Reply-To: <85c64c4b79a0c8ff209e41717c9a94e2e9dffc52@i2pn2.org> X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Bytes: 5144 On 3/8/2025 3:17 AM, joes wrote: > Am Fri, 07 Mar 2025 21:40:56 -0600 schrieb olcott: >> On 3/7/2025 8:23 PM, dbush wrote: >>> On 3/7/2025 9:19 PM, olcott wrote: >>>> On 3/7/2025 7:52 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>> On 3/7/2025 8:49 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>> On 3/7/2025 10:25 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>> Op 07.mrt.2025 om 16:17 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>> On 3/7/2025 2:59 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>>>> Op 06.mrt.2025 om 21:13 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>>>> On 3/6/2025 3:13 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Op 06.mrt.2025 om 04:53 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/5/2025 9:31 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/5/2025 10:17 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/5/2025 7:10 PM, dbush wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, you know that what you're working on has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing to do with the halting problem, but you don't care. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words I WILL NOT TOLERATE ANY BULLSHIT DEFLECTION. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have proven that you know these things pretty well SO >>>>>>>>>>>>>> QUIT THE SHIT! >>>>>>>>>>>>> You want people to accept that HHH(DD) does in fact report >>>>>>>>>>>>> that changing the code of HHH to an unconditional simulator >>>>>>>>>>>>> and running HHH(DD) will not halt. >>>>>>>>>>>> DD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own >>>>>>>>>>>> "ret" instruction and terminate normally. >>>>>>>>>>> Yes, we agree that HHH fails to reach the 'ret' instruction, >>>>>>>>>> Despicably dishonest attempt at the straw-man deception. >>>>>>>>> No rebuttal. So, we agree that HHH fails to reach the 'ret' >>>>>>>>> instruction. >>>>>>>> Not at all. Trying to get away with changing the subject WILL NOT >>>>>>>> BE TOLERATED. >>>>>>> If you do not agree that HHH fails to reach the 'ret' instruction >>>>>>> (that world-class simulators do reach, just as the direct execution >>>>>>> does), show how it reaches the 'ret' instruction. >>>>>> *set X* >>>>>> When-so-ever any input to any simulating termination analyzer calls >>>>>> the simulator that is simulating itself >>>>> Not an issue, since termination analyzers don't exist. >>>> I thought that you demonstrated knowledge of these things. >>>> Maybe I was wrong. >>> We know termination analyzers don't exist because no algorithm exists >>> that maps the halting function: >>> (,Y) maps to 1 if and only if X(Y) halts when executed directly >>> (,Y) maps to 0 if and only if X(Y) does not halt when executed >>> directly >> Automated Termination Analysis of C Programs >> https://publications.rwth-aachen.de/record/972440/files/972440.pdf >> AProVE seems to be the leading authority on what you say DOES NOT EXIST > It isn't claimed to be total. Have you tried running it on itself or > on a program similar to DD (instead of calling HHH, ...)? > Termination analyzers are not required to be infallible. -- Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer