Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Fred. Zwarts" Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Totally ignoring invalid rebuttals Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2025 17:01:17 +0100 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 94 Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2025 17:01:18 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="111ebc5957824e612f76d2436b1c509b"; logging-data="201109"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19HsVeMiZHCpB/xjervTG8a" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:JUOmlAd81wDf3k68Rj44ZohgI3E= Content-Language: nl, en-GB In-Reply-To: Bytes: 5283 Op 08.mrt.2025 om 16:10 schreef olcott: > On 3/8/2025 3:12 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >> Op 08.mrt.2025 om 02:48 schreef olcott: >>> On 3/7/2025 10:23 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>> Op 07.mrt.2025 om 16:22 schreef olcott: >>>>> On 3/7/2025 3:09 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>> Op 06.mrt.2025 om 21:11 schreef olcott: >>>>>>> On 3/6/2025 2:02 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>> On 2025-03-04 14:26:39 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3/4/2025 4:36 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 2025-03-04 03:07:56 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> int DD() >>>>>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>>    int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); >>>>>>>>>>>    if (Halt_Status) >>>>>>>>>>>      HERE: goto HERE; >>>>>>>>>>>    return Halt_Status; >>>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _DD() >>>>>>>>>>> [00002133] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>> [00002134] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>>> [00002136] 51         push ecx      ; make space for local >>>>>>>>>>> [00002137] 6833210000 push 00002133 ; push DD >>>>>>>>>>> [0000213c] e882f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DD) >>>>>>>>>>> [00002141] 83c404     add esp,+04 >>>>>>>>>>> [00002144] 8945fc     mov [ebp-04],eax >>>>>>>>>>> [00002147] 837dfc00   cmp dword [ebp-04],+00 >>>>>>>>>>> [0000214b] 7402       jz 0000214f >>>>>>>>>>> [0000214d] ebfe       jmp 0000214d >>>>>>>>>>> [0000214f] 8b45fc     mov eax,[ebp-04] >>>>>>>>>>> [00002152] 8be5       mov esp,ebp >>>>>>>>>>> [00002154] 5d         pop ebp >>>>>>>>>>> [00002155] c3         ret >>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0035) [00002155] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> DD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly >>>>>>>>>>> reach its own "ret" instruction and terminate normally. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The only valid rebuttal is to show all of the steps of >>>>>>>>>>> exactly how DD correctly emulated by HHH reaches its >>>>>>>>>>> own "ret" instruction. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The question whether DD emulated by HHH exists is too >>>>>>>>>> uninteresting that >>>>>>>>>> it would need a rebuttal, and so is the question that does it >>>>>>>>>> reach its >>>>>>>>>> "ret" instruction if it exsists. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> DD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly >>>>>>>>> reach its own "ret" instruction and terminate normally. >>>>>>>>> *Proves that the input to HHH(DD) can be rejected as non-halting* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As "DD correctly emulated by HHH" does not exist >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *No one has made any attempt to show that* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> There is no proof that it does exist. >>>>> >>>>> Failing to understand this code is less than no rebuttal at all. >>>>> https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c >>>>> Failing to understand that no HHH can correctly simulate itself is no >>>> rebuttal at all. >>> >>> Failing to understand that Fred. Zwarts is only >>> a not very bright bot is my mistake. >>> >> >> Irrelevant. Again no rebuttal. >> >> So, since there is no rebuttal after two reactions from Olcott, I >> conclude that we agree that no HHH exists that correctly simulates >> itself up to the end. > > There is no end (reaching its final state) to the simulation > of non-terminating input dumb bunny. > Is it dumb to agree with Olcott? It seems that he is stuck in rebuttal mode, so that, even if I agree with him, he thinks I am wrong. Is that a sign of intelligence, or is Olcott just a random sentence selector, fed with disagreement sentences? We agree that HHH correctly reports that it cannot possibly reach the 'ret' instruction of a finite string, that, when given for direct execution or given to a world-class simulator has no problem to reach the end. In other words, HHH correctly reports that it cannot correctly simulate this proven halting input up to the end.