Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!news.quux.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: DD correctly emulated by HHH --- Totally ignoring invalid rebuttals Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2025 09:10:07 -0600 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 93 Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2025 16:10:08 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="ffa3f7c8a9c06536bf515dd54724b6f7"; logging-data="219371"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19WQZjYOc4WbH7kjlzecEms" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:Rtox2rwB3iSjP0LvoXmHmRFTNFg= X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250308-2, 3/8/2025), Outbound message Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus-Status: Clean In-Reply-To: Bytes: 5160 On 3/8/2025 3:12 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: > Op 08.mrt.2025 om 02:48 schreef olcott: >> On 3/7/2025 10:23 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>> Op 07.mrt.2025 om 16:22 schreef olcott: >>>> On 3/7/2025 3:09 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>> Op 06.mrt.2025 om 21:11 schreef olcott: >>>>>> On 3/6/2025 2:02 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>> On 2025-03-04 14:26:39 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3/4/2025 4:36 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 2025-03-04 03:07:56 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> int DD() >>>>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>    int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); >>>>>>>>>>    if (Halt_Status) >>>>>>>>>>      HERE: goto HERE; >>>>>>>>>>    return Halt_Status; >>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _DD() >>>>>>>>>> [00002133] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>> [00002134] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>> [00002136] 51         push ecx      ; make space for local >>>>>>>>>> [00002137] 6833210000 push 00002133 ; push DD >>>>>>>>>> [0000213c] e882f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DD) >>>>>>>>>> [00002141] 83c404     add esp,+04 >>>>>>>>>> [00002144] 8945fc     mov [ebp-04],eax >>>>>>>>>> [00002147] 837dfc00   cmp dword [ebp-04],+00 >>>>>>>>>> [0000214b] 7402       jz 0000214f >>>>>>>>>> [0000214d] ebfe       jmp 0000214d >>>>>>>>>> [0000214f] 8b45fc     mov eax,[ebp-04] >>>>>>>>>> [00002152] 8be5       mov esp,ebp >>>>>>>>>> [00002154] 5d         pop ebp >>>>>>>>>> [00002155] c3         ret >>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0035) [00002155] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> DD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly >>>>>>>>>> reach its own "ret" instruction and terminate normally. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The only valid rebuttal is to show all of the steps of >>>>>>>>>> exactly how DD correctly emulated by HHH reaches its >>>>>>>>>> own "ret" instruction. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The question whether DD emulated by HHH exists is too >>>>>>>>> uninteresting that >>>>>>>>> it would need a rebuttal, and so is the question that does it >>>>>>>>> reach its >>>>>>>>> "ret" instruction if it exsists. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> DD correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly >>>>>>>> reach its own "ret" instruction and terminate normally. >>>>>>>> *Proves that the input to HHH(DD) can be rejected as non-halting* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As "DD correctly emulated by HHH" does not exist >>>>>> >>>>>> *No one has made any attempt to show that* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> There is no proof that it does exist. >>>> >>>> Failing to understand this code is less than no rebuttal at all. >>>> https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c >>>> Failing to understand that no HHH can correctly simulate itself is no >>> rebuttal at all. >> >> Failing to understand that Fred. Zwarts is only >> a not very bright bot is my mistake. >> > > Irrelevant. Again no rebuttal. > > So, since there is no rebuttal after two reactions from Olcott, I > conclude that we agree that no HHH exists that correctly simulates > itself up to the end. There is no end (reaching its final state) to the simulation of non-terminating input dumb bunny. > HHH is correct when it reports that it could not simulate the input up > to the end. An input that, when given for direct execution or a world- > class simulator, has no problem to reach its end. > > What next? What is de advantage of knowing that there are simulators > that are unable to complete the simulation? Didn't we know that already? -- Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer