Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!newsfeed.bofh.team!paganini.bofh.team!not-for-mail From: antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) Newsgroups: comp.arch Subject: Re: What is an N-bit machine? Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2024 18:20:31 -0000 (UTC) Organization: To protect and to server Message-ID: References: <20241128185548.000031c9@yahoo.com> <6d465123692bdef4f43de8013a0562e4@www.novabbs.org> Injection-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2024 18:20:31 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: paganini.bofh.team; logging-data="2628005"; posting-host="WwiNTD3IIceGeoS5hCc4+A.user.paganini.bofh.team"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@bofh.team"; posting-account="9dIQLXBM7WM9KzA+yjdR4A"; User-Agent: tin/2.6.2-20221225 ("Pittyvaich") (Linux/6.1.0-9-amd64 (x86_64)) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.3 Bytes: 2802 Lines: 38 Terje Mathisen wrote: > MitchAlsup1 wrote: >> On Sat, 30 Nov 2024 19:40:17 +0000, John Levine wrote: >> >>> I get the impression that we will have 32 bit architectures for a very >>> long time, since they are smaller and cheaper to implement than 64 bit >>> and for a lot of embedded applications they are more than adequate. >>> Examples are ARM Cortex-R4 and -R5, high performance 32 bit realtime >>> chips. >> >> Still one hardly needs more than a Z80 to run a toaster, microwave, >> stove, >> oven, faucet, door lock, refrigerator, ... {{Or basically everything >> nobody >> ever thought would have/need a computer inside of them}} > > They are still going to end up with a 32-bit CPU in future products! > > Both because that's needed to support a full development environment/ > arbitrary languages and because the cost is becoming mostly trivial: > > When every single flash/thumb drive has contained a full 32-bit CPU for > more than 5 years now, the cost has to be in the cents range. One can buy 32-bit Risc-V for $0.10, but CPU is integrated with RAM and flash and you get "16-bit" amount of flash (16kB) and RAM (2kB). IIUC compressed variant of Risc-V is rather compact, but still, there is non-negligable space cost for 32-bit addresses, so architecture with 16-bit addresses _may_ have some advantage (or possibly IP16 option in compiler, but current 32-bit MCU-s allocate address space in sparse way, making 16-bit pointers rather inconvenient). OTOH only highest volume applications are looking for very cheap (< $0.10) MCU-s. In most other cases lower cost (like Pavuk MCU) does not compensate inconvenience of developing software. -- Waldek Hebisch