Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: AMuzi Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech Subject: Re: Suspension losses Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2025 19:28:34 -0600 Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd. Lines: 218 Message-ID: References: <7ee2ojpq2b75m6gsd5svace02b19qassrk@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 02:28:35 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="ce70e83366a473d712f409064307176c"; logging-data="1562294"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+6A7MkCpsxmpz40yeoOflI" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:tZRXf+dkcXSPueJ+N0vaZb8C2PI= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Bytes: 9983 On 1/12/2025 7:19 PM, John B. wrote: > On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 11:08:45 -0600, AMuzi wrote: > >> On 1/11/2025 6:46 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>> On 1/11/2025 4:11 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote: >>>> Am Fri, 10 Jan 2025 20:01:26 -0500 schrieb Frank Krygowski >>>> : >>>> >>>>> On 1/10/2025 5:18 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote: >>>>>> This makes me reflect on the criticism of electronics in >>>>>> bicycles. ... But what about measuring the >>>>>> amount of power applied to the pedals, what about >>>>>> telling the cyclist >>>>>> who balanced he splits the power between left and right, by >>>>>> instrumenting the pedal or the bottom bracket? >>>>> >>>>> Yes, that can be done with enough sensors and >>>>> electronics. But it seems >>>>> like useless information to me. As with much computer >>>>> software, it seems >>>>> like "feature bloat." Why would anybody but a racer care? >>>> >>>> Is there any reason to believe that old people like me >>>> don't have a need >>>> to care about training intensity, as a matter of >>>> principle?  How comes? >>>> >>>> When using my biycles as a middle aged, healthy adult I >>>> didn't care >>>> about racing, didn't train and didn't try to find company >>>> in cycling >>>> clubs, either. I didn't visit a gym until much later. >>>> Cycling was simply >>>> a way to get to work quickly. During vacations it was a more >>>> entertaining mode of transportation than the car. Fitness, >>>> strength and >>>> cardio fitness came as a side effect, slowly and almost >>>> unnoticed. >>>> >>>> This has changed. My cardio fitness is still better than >>>> what I know >>>> about a lot of people half my age. Nevertheless, it >>>> decreased over the >>>> years and it takes more and more effort to keep what you >>>> have not yet >>>> lost. As it is expected. The ability to measure power is >>>> helpful in >>>> finding the point at which intensity is sufficient and >>>> overload has not >>>> yet begun. This is even more true in combination with a >>>> heart rate >>>> monitor. >>>> >>>> So far, this is only about aging. But there is more. >>>> >>>> Accidents that led to damage to bones, joints and tendons >>>> in the past >>>> have consequences to be considered, too. There is a >>>> tendency to >>>> compensate weaknesses by bad postures, whithout noticing. >>>> This is both >>>> caused by damages and causing damages. This is to be >>>> avoided.  Measuring >>>> how power is applied by the feet helps detecting >>>> differences early, >>>> avoiding damage. >>>> >>>> Avoiding damage is far from useless. >>> >>> But individual power outputs from left and right legs? I >>> can't imagine much value from that measurement. In fact, I >>> don't believe power measurement is necessary for fitness. I >>> judge by feel. It has the advantage of naturally >>> compensating for days when I feel stronger or weaker. And >>> it's organic!  ;-) >>> >>>> My experiences with mechanical devices are at least as >>>> mixed as those >>>> with electronic devices.  Some very complicated electronic >>>> devices that >>>> I bought decades ago still work. The same applies to some >>>> that I built >>>> myself a long time ago.  With devices that contained both >>>> electronic and >>>> mechanical parts, the fault was more often on the >>>> mechanical side. >>>> >>>> Anecdotical, I know. >>> >>> To me, a big advantage is the ability to _look_ at a >>> mechanical device and _see_ what's wrong. That, and the fact >>> I can often affect a repair. I hate the Kleenex ethic - >>> "It's no good any more, just throw it away." >>> >>>>> Two days ago, my kid asked me to figure out why an >>>>> electric blanket >>>>> wasn't working. The controller refused to turn on. I >>>>> opened it and >>>>> confirmed that it was getting supply voltage. Beyond >>>>> that, the pile of >>>>> dozens of surface mount electronic components was >>>>> incomprehensible to >>>>> me. I suspect Jeff might have been able to diagnose it, >>>>> but not me. >>>>> Here's a photo: >>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/16972296@N08/54259119364/ >>>>> in/dateposted-public/ >>>>> I know electric blankets are old technology. I know they >>>>> functioned well >>>>> for decades with maybe a rheostat and perhaps a couple of >>>>> other >>>>> components. Why add unrepairable complexity? >>>> >>>> Don't know.  We use devices like the blue one in the >>>> following picture. >>>> >>> W%C3%A4rmflasche1.jpg> >>>> and better isolating blankets. No electricity necessary. :-) >>> >>> :-) But you imply that _I'm_ the one insufficiently modern? >>> >>>> A few lights in our house are switched by set of 2 x 3 >>>> inexpensive >>>> wireless sockets including two remote controls, that I >>>> bought eleven >>>> years ago. I've still to replace the batteries. Two of the >>>> sockets are >>>> still spares, I have a replacement cell for the remote >>>> controls stored >>>> which might live even longer. Standard type, used in >>>> garage openers and >>>> burglar alarms, too. Selecting a channel and paring one of >>>> the four >>>> buttons of a remote control with one or more of the >>>> sockets is as easy >>>> as pie, using a line of dip switches inside those >>>> devices.  Quite >>>> similar to pairing switches and derailleur on our bicyles. >>>> >>>> While I avoid having essential functionality in my house >>>> depend on >>>> wireless connections, I enjoy having the option, for >>>> certain use cases, >>>> though. >>> >>> Yuck. >>> >>> I bought a new pedestal fan for our back patio last year. >>> I've found a fan to be the best defense against mosquitos. >>> The previous one still runs, but exposure to sunlight >>> destroyed its plastic finger protection screen. >>> >>> Anyway, the new one comes with a remote control, roughly the >>> size of a snack cracker. Who needs a remote to adjust a fan? >>> I rejected ceiling fans with remotes when I was shopping, >>> too. It's something to lose, something whose battery will >>> die, and something whose electronics will go bad and be >>> unrepairable. >>> ... >>>> >>>> When I see a 50 year old, perfect looking bicycle, I think: >>>> That one must have been standing around inside most of the >>>> time, perhaps >>>> for a reason. >>> >>> My favorite bike is a young 39 years. It looks perfect, in >>> part because I had it (and my wife's matching one) stripped >>> and powder coated a couple years ago. Too many excellent >>> memories to let it go. >>> >>> >> >> Not only the electronics infestation of consumer products. ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========