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Failed to connect to MySQL: (1203) User howardkn already has more than 'max_user_connections' active connectionsPath: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: John B. Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech Subject: Re: People Without Meaningful Lives Seek Power Over Others Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2025 07:17:10 +0700 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 384 Message-ID: References: <5mv5pj5k8dkfgkv2776armooftvtk03on2@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2025 01:17:23 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="cd3e85bc7bed5b355cf5a99967fc08be"; logging-data="3346277"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/tcPAmUIJy/eOoi5slnCEKbL4dR/Thp1E=" User-Agent: ForteAgent/7.10.32.1212 Cancel-Lock: sha1:7CHJfMsvp0G1R5QvnMQca7fTqeY= Bytes: 15670 On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 08:01:36 -0600, AMuzi wrote: >On 1/24/2025 9:05 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >> On 1/24/2025 7:52 PM, AMuzi wrote: >>> On 1/24/2025 6:26 PM, John B. wrote: >>>> On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 11:01:48 -0600, AMuzi >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 1/24/2025 10:19 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>> On 1/24/2025 9:57 AM, John B. wrote: >>>>>>> On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 08:01:28 -0600, AMuzi >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 1/23/2025 9:10 PM, John B. wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 19:40:08 -0600, AMuzi >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2025 7:32 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2025 6:26 PM, AMuzi wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2025 2:53 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2025 2:38 PM, AMuzi wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2025 12:10 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2025 6:23 AM, zen cycle wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/22/2025 10:03 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, I think if we could do so, road taxes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all be on such a per-mile-driven system, maybe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modified additionally for the weight of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vehicle. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Texas tried it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.dallasnews.com/news/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> investigations/2024/10/23/ a-look- at- texas- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> private- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> toll-roads/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least in one case, it didn't go so well: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.texasobserver.org/texas-tollway-288- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steep- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> price/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Since the tollway opened in November 2020, toll >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have increased by more than 160 percent, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> $11 for the full 20- mile round trip during peak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hours >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to $29 dollars now. " >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That looks like an astonishingly bad agreement >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the government and BTG corporation. But note >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that BTG >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paid only a third of the cost of construction, so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that "private" toll road was heavily >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subsidized by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxpayers. I'm pointing this out to those who say >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transport should cover all its expenses via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fares, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> zero subsidies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To try for a broader overview of road taxes: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people who never drive, and people who drive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than others. Since the vast majority of road- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expenses are _not_ covered by gasoline taxes, why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should a non-driver pay the same road taxes as a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mega- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> driver? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why not tie those taxes the amount of roadway >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> used by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each driver, since that (as well as vehicle >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> weight) is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a main determinant of roadway expenses? After >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> train fares are strongly affected by the the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rider's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> travel distance - IOW the amount of track used. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To allay the fears of the paranoid: The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't need to track your movements. You'd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to submit evidence of your odometer total >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once per >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> year. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seems to me the crew that says "Let the market >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decide" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be all in favor of this idea. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And please note, I'm not making this argument >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own benefit. Quite the opposite! As I've said, my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> situation has changed in a way that makes me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> driver far >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more annual miles than I ever did before, and I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it in an EV. I'm pretty sure I'm paying less >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than "my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> share" of roadway expenses. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many (I included) would sharply resist such >>>>>>>>>>>>>> government >>>>>>>>>>>>>> motoring of my auto use. That's a political >>>>>>>>>>>>>> barrier, not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a technical issue. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course you, and many others, would dislike >>>>>>>>>>>>> such a >>>>>>>>>>>>> scheme! So yes, like many things, it's a political >>>>>>>>>>>>> issue. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Everybody wants better services but they don't >>>>>>>>>>>>> want to >>>>>>>>>>>>> pay for them. (Our classic example here is >>>>>>>>>>>>> better law >>>>>>>>>>>>> enforcement and more prisons, magically paid for >>>>>>>>>>>>> by "No >>>>>>>>>>>>> new taxes!") >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, people who do not own or use motor vehicles >>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>> consume myriad products all of which are >>>>>>>>>>>>>> transported by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> motor freight (even air & rail have 'last mile' >>>>>>>>>>>>>> truck >>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivery). They pay road tax with every purchase, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> plus a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> markup. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course. And they'd still pay that way, through >>>>>>>>>>>>> normal >>>>>>>>>>>>> sales tax and purchase price, as they do now. >>>>>>>>>>>>> But in >>>>>>>>>>>>> principle, their total tax burden should be >>>>>>>>>>>>> less, since >>>>>>>>>>>>> those who made private use of the roads would be >>>>>>>>>>>>> paying a >>>>>>>>>>>>> bit closer to their fair share. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems downright socialistic to charge non- >>>>>>>>>>>>> drivers >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> same as drivers for roads whose potholes and >>>>>>>>>>>>> other wear >>>>>>>>>>>>> the non-drivers never generate. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The principle is sound, that we all bear the cost of >>>>>>>>>>>> shared infrastructure. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> But I'm saying those who "share" it less should >>>>>>>>>>> pay less. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Non-drivers get less for their tax money. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In practice, many people are rubbed the wrong way by >>>>>>>>>>>> being >>>>>>>>>>>> taxed for things which never get finished, never >>>>>>>>>>>> meet >>>>>>>>>>>> goals, never benefit the citizenry. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Such as Chicago property taxes, which are relatively >>>>>>>>>>>> high >>>>>>>>>>>> for US cities, pretending to 'graduate' >>>>>>>>>>>> illiterates at >>>>>>>>>>>> $30,000 each per year. We all have our own egregious ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========