Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: AMuzi Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech Subject: Re: People Without Meaningful Lives Seek Power Over Others Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 09:25:02 -0600 Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd. Lines: 438 Message-ID: References: <5mv5pj5k8dkfgkv2776armooftvtk03on2@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 16:25:03 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="e347699b196dc857eb143336c9705591"; logging-data="3138480"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+8HW+0pqub51eXOIO+mXnc" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:36NdG7eCbuVP0jLQOuU9/os5qwo= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Bytes: 17643 On 1/25/2025 11:18 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: > On 1/25/2025 9:01 AM, AMuzi wrote: >> On 1/24/2025 9:05 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>> On 1/24/2025 7:52 PM, AMuzi wrote: >>>> On 1/24/2025 6:26 PM, John B. wrote: >>>>> On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 11:01:48 -0600, AMuzi >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 1/24/2025 10:19 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>>> On 1/24/2025 9:57 AM, John B. wrote: >>>>>>>> On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 08:01:28 -0600, AMuzi >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2025 9:10 PM, John B. wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 19:40:08 -0600, AMuzi >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2025 7:32 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2025 6:26 PM, AMuzi wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2025 2:53 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2025 2:38 PM, AMuzi wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2025 12:10 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2025 6:23 AM, zen cycle wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/22/2025 10:03 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, I think if we could do so, road >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all be on such a per-mile-driven system, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modified additionally for the weight of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vehicle. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Texas tried it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.dallasnews.com/news/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> investigations/2024/10/23/ a-look- at- texas- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> private- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> toll-roads/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least in one case, it didn't go so well: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.texasobserver.org/texas- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tollway-288- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steep- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> price/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Since the tollway opened in November 2020, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> toll >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rates >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have increased by more than 160 percent, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> $11 for the full 20- mile round trip during >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hours >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to $29 dollars now. " >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That looks like an astonishingly bad agreement >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the government and BTG corporation. But note >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that BTG >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paid only a third of the cost of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> construction, so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that "private" toll road was heavily >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subsidized by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxpayers. I'm pointing this out to those >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who say >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transport should cover all its expenses via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fares, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> zero subsidies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To try for a broader overview of road taxes: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people who never drive, and people who drive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than others. Since the vast majority of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> road- related >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expenses are _not_ covered by gasoline >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes, why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should a non-driver pay the same road taxes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mega- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> driver? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why not tie those taxes the amount of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roadway used by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each driver, since that (as well as vehicle >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> weight) is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a main determinant of roadway expenses? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After all, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> train fares are strongly affected by the the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rider's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> travel distance - IOW the amount of track used. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To allay the fears of the paranoid: The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't need to track your movements. You'd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to submit evidence of your odometer total >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once per >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> year. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seems to me the crew that says "Let the market >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decide" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be all in favor of this idea. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And please note, I'm not making this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> argument for my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own benefit. Quite the opposite! As I've >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said, my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> life >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> situation has changed in a way that makes me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> driver far >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more annual miles than I ever did before, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it in an EV. I'm pretty sure I'm paying less >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than "my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> share" of roadway expenses. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many (I included) would sharply resist such >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> government >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motoring of my auto use. That's a political >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> barrier, not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a technical issue. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course you, and many others, would dislike >>>>>>>>>>>>>> such a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> scheme! So yes, like many things, it's a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> political >>>>>>>>>>>>>> issue. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everybody wants better services but they don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> pay for them. (Our classic example here is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> better law >>>>>>>>>>>>>> enforcement and more prisons, magically paid >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for by "No >>>>>>>>>>>>>> new taxes!") >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, people who do not own or use motor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vehicles >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consume myriad products all of which are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transported by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motor freight (even air & rail have 'last >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mile' truck >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivery). They pay road tax with every >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purchase, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plus a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> markup. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course. And they'd still pay that way, through >>>>>>>>>>>>>> normal >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sales tax and purchase price, as they do now. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> But in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> principle, their total tax burden should be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> less, since >>>>>>>>>>>>>> those who made private use of the roads would be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> paying a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit closer to their fair share. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems downright socialistic to charge non- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> drivers >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> same as drivers for roads whose potholes and ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========