Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: AMuzi Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech Subject: Re: Helmet efficacy test Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2025 07:45:58 -0500 Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd. Lines: 164 Message-ID: References: <5s97uj5dahrmveummf60sh8crl60f1d2gv@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2025 13:46:00 +0100 (CET) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="bbcfdc47aff3294205deac8e965e31b9"; logging-data="1863004"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/VD+srYhlg0VJOEuzgYjvL" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:PoazjKS4K7AeKnHX1cK8Dmlf+lc= In-Reply-To: <5s97uj5dahrmveummf60sh8crl60f1d2gv@4ax.com> Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 7398 On 3/26/2025 2:09 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote: > On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 09:11:09 +0700, John B. > wrote: > >> On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 20:12:33 -0500, AMuzi wrote: >> >>> On 3/25/2025 7:58 PM, John B. wrote: >>>> On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 08:49:32 -0500, AMuzi wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 3/25/2025 6:19 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote: >>>>>> Am 25.03.2025 um 11:11 schrieb John B.: >>>>>>> On 25 Mar 2025 08:02:38 GMT, Roger Merriman >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 3/24/2025 6:02 PM, Mark J cleary wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I like to wear helmet for extra protection against a >>>>>>>>>> fall. I do agree >>>>>>>>>> that for me even running with a helmet would be good >>>>>>>>>> since I have no >>>>>>>>>> balance to run anymore. However, Frank is I think in >>>>>>>>>> the minority about >>>>>>>>>> helmets... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Nope, that's not true. In the current echo chamber of >>>>>>>>> avid sport >>>>>>>>> cyclists I am a minority. But very I'm comfortable with >>>>>>>>> not following >>>>>>>>> most of the group's trends. I don't use clipless pedals, >>>>>>>>> I don't use >>>>>>>>> brifters or disk brakes, I don't ride in jerseys that >>>>>>>>> advertise my >>>>>>>>> favorite products or my favorite racing team, I don't >>>>>>>>> use aerodynamic >>>>>>>>> sunglasses, etc. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But in the total population of world cyclists, it's the >>>>>>>>> helmet wearers >>>>>>>>> who are a definite minority. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ... and while he may have data to support it sometimes >>>>>>>>>> we humans >>>>>>>>>> overlook data. I rely sometimes only on intuition and >>>>>>>>>> what I think might >>>>>>>>>> be good. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That's a common human trait. It leads to lots of bad >>>>>>>>> decisions, but it's >>>>>>>>> common. It's usually wiser to pay attention to good >>>>>>>>> data, when it's >>>>>>>>> available. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I really don't understand the length's Frank goes to dis >>>>>>>>>> helmets but maybe I am simply taking it more than it is. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you check, you'll see I never initiate helmet >>>>>>>>> debates. But when >>>>>>>>> someone else - um, like you, Mark! - starts stating or >>>>>>>>> implying that >>>>>>>>> helmets have great benefit, and/or states or implies >>>>>>>>> that bicycling is a >>>>>>>>> serious risk for brain injury, I do point out that those >>>>>>>>> notions are false. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bicycling has never been a major source of serious >>>>>>>>> traumatic brain >>>>>>>>> injury (TBI). On a nationwide basis, bicycling's >>>>>>>>> contribution to TBI >>>>>>>>> counts is low enough to be off most "causes" charts. >>>>>>>>> Bicycling causes >>>>>>>>> fewer then 1% of U.S. TBI deaths, far fewer than >>>>>>>>> pedestrian travel, and >>>>>>>>> far fewer on a "per mile" basis. And historic data over >>>>>>>>> the years shows >>>>>>>>> quite clearly that bicycle helmets are not preventing >>>>>>>>> either fatalities >>>>>>>>> or concussions. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Data on request - but it's been posted or linked >>>>>>>>> countless times. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Helmets for cycle safety are distraction to use one of UK >>>>>>>> bike >>>>>>>> personalities/transport experts aka Chris Boardman. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With cycling the danger and risk is almost entirely >>>>>>>> introduced by >>>>>>>> motorists, which should be the focus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Helmet “debates” as ever seem to go nowhere as folks have >>>>>>>> such intrenched >>>>>>>> positions. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Roger Merriman >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've told this story before but once again. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When I was working around oil well drilling rigs the word >>>>>>> came down >>>>>>> from the Drilling Company -  "When you come back from >>>>>>> break be sure >>>>>>> you are wearing a "Hard Hat"(i.e. helmet) or don't bother >>>>>>> to come >>>>>>> back". And you know? Everybody came back with a hard hat >>>>>>> and there was >>>>>>> never a mention,  good, bad or indifferent, whether people >>>>>>> wanted to >>>>>>> were a helmet, or not, or any of the other  arguments I >>>>>>> hear in >>>>>>> bicycle circles. >>>>>> >>>>>> How many people get paid to go bicycling? Most people cycle >>>>>> voluntarily, or stop cycling voluntarily. >>>>>> >>>>>> What is the cost to society if people "don't bother to come >>>>>> back" (as hapened in Australia)? >>>>>> >>>>>> Why did the "don't bother to come back unless you wear a >>>>>> seat belt" not work in the USA? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> In a perfect world, I would probably wear a seat belt when >>>>> driving. But since the State made it mandatory, which >>>>> naturally engenders defiance, I just restrict myself to >>>>> exempt autos and drive without. >>>> >>>> >>>> (:-) do we assume that you also ignore state laws against, oh say, >>>> theft and taxes? >>>> >>> >>> I'm morally aligned with the statues on theft and resigned >>> to taxes. >>> >>> But the seatbelt laws are well outside the proper realm of >>> the government. >>> >>> As mentioned here recently, we either have a government of >>> limited enumerated powers or we do not. >> >> Well... as I posted previously, your state receives a rather >> astonishingly large amount of money from the Federal Government and if >> you take their money you have to play to their tune :-) > > The question is, "why do the Feds tax people and then use it to bribe > them? > > Why not simply stop taxing them? > > -- > C'est bon > Soloman Because the racket is not 1:1. Which would be bad enough. There's significant diversion to friends and allies not to mention the policy influence aspect. -- Andrew Muzi am@yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971