Path: ...!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: Frank Slootweg Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.windows-11 Subject: Re: Windows-on-ARM Laptop Is A ?Frequently-Returned Item? On Amazon Date: 24 Mar 2025 19:08:46 GMT Organization: NOYB Lines: 66 Message-ID: References: <22SDP.751109$SZca.295425@fx13.iad> X-Trace: individual.net dBInawCPix4mjs2EgClKRgYtwx9UG2Zgx1w3R6Rag6p71LAQ6B X-Orig-Path: not-for-mail Cancel-Lock: sha1:SDA9rrQzl1roEr7dDtISGitWEFM= sha256:NCtO+fZ/cw8zylKYTkckcSTZs/qH4g/WBIdBTqh8Zuw= User-Agent: tin/1.6.2-20030910 ("Pabbay") (UNIX) (CYGWIN_NT-10.0-WOW/2.8.0(0.309/5/3) (i686)) Hamster/2.0.2.2 Bytes: 4482 CrudeSausage wrote: > On 2025-03-24 2:41 p.m., Frank Slootweg wrote: > > Paul wrote: > >> On Mon, 3/24/2025 1:19 PM, CrudeSausage wrote: > >>> On 2025-03-24 12:58 p.m., rbowman wrote: > >>>> On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 03:30:50 -0400, Paul wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> And, there is competition. > >>>>> > >>>>> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/08/ryzen-ai-300-performance-review- > >>>> impressive-cpus-even-if-you-dont-care-about-ai/ > >>>> > >>>> For $1600 it is more than competitive with similarly priced ARM laptops > >>>> that might be able to run a full range of software someday. The claimed > >>>> 'up to 18 hours' of battery life reduces the major ARM selling point. > >>>> > >>>> I'm glad to see I'm not alone. I have an Acer laptop with a Ryzen 7 that > >>>> has a silvery finish and white backlight that had me asking 'what were > >>>> they thinking?'. > >>> > >>> The one thing those reviews never mention is that by using an AMD > >>> CPU, you're going to be facing fTPM stuttering because none of those > >>> computers come with a discrete TPM chip. For most, it's little more > >>> than a nuisance, but it's one that you can only avoid by using Linux > >>> going forward. > >> > >> IDK. I have a spare computer, with a Zen3 in it, and no stutter to be seen. > >> Presumably this is with the Secure Boot enabled ? I have another Zen3, > >> which is the machine reserved for Secure Boot testing, it has no TPM > >> and uses the AMD fTPM, and no stutter there either. It has booted Linux > >> Secure Boots and Windows Secure Boots, as part of testing a while ago. > >> > >> Both machines, the BIOS version is the most recent. Both got flashed up. > >> > >> The difference with laptops, is the BIOS support may not be as generous. > > > > AFAIC, this 'AMD stuttering' issue is old and fixed 'news'. > > > > See the January thread 'This Is Why They Say Windows Is A Great OS -- > > If Your Time Is Worth Nothing' in these groups. > > > > See Andrzej Matuch's post [1] in that thread and my and his responses. > > > > As mentioned in my last response [2], in my case there was a BIOS > > firmware update. > > > > [1] Message-ID: > > [2] Message-ID: > > Except that it's not fixed. Some manufacturers might have provided a > BIOS to fix the issue, but most have yet to do so on the laptop side. My > model computer, the Zephyrus GA401QM, hasn't had a BIOS update since > 2023. Everyone expected that the 415 update would fix the issue since it > was repeatedly mentioned by users, but ASUS never bothered to fix it. > The most likely reason is because they can't. In the previous thread, Andrzej references From that, I understand that AMD supplies the fix to the manufacturers, which of course have to integrate it in their firmware. If those manufacturers - in your case ASUS - fail to do so, that's hardly AMD's fault. That's the risk of using fTPM, instead of a real TPM. As I said, my system was fixed and - as I mentioned in the other thread - that is a (2022) (HP) *laptop*.