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NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2024 18:18:43 +0000
Subject: Re: What composes the mass of an electron?
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
References:
From: Ross Finlayson
Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 10:18:29 -0800
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On 11/05/2024 09:49 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
> On 11/03/2024 11:53 PM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am Sonntag000003, 03.11.2024 um 18:28 schrieb Ross Finlayson:
>>> On 11/02/2024 11:19 PM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>> Am Samstag000002, 02.11.2024 um 01:39 schrieb Ross Finlayson:
>>>>> On 11/01/2024 11:13 AM, rhertz wrote:
>>>>>> A definition of mass, as found in Google:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Mass is a measurement of the amount of matter or substance in an
>>>>>> object.
>>>>>> It's the total amount of protons, neutrons, and electrons in an
>>>>>> object."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's "accepted" since the 60s that protons and neutrons are not
>>>>>> elementary particles anymore. As stated in the Standard Model of
>>>>>> Elementary Particles, protons and neutrons are composed of quarks,
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> different flavors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.quantumdiaries.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/2000px-
>>>>>> Standard_Model_of_Elementary_Particles.svg_.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But electrons are thought as elementary particles, so they can't be
>>>>>> formed by a collection of other elementary particles. Even quarks are
>>>>>> currently thought as working together with elementary gluons (QCD,
>>>>>> Gauge
>>>>>> Bossons).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, what is THE MATTER that electrons contain?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is one of many FAILS of the current SMEP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is that the electron's mass is composed of unknown matter? Maybe of
>>>>>> electromagnetic nature?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After all, modern civilization is based on what electrons can do,
>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>> it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> THEY KNOW NOTHING, AS IN RELATIVISM!.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You got there a deconstructive, elementary account, into
>>>>> what's called the trans-Planckian regime, from what's
>>>>> called the Democritan regime, where Democritus or
>>>>> Demokrites is who championed "atomism" the theory
>>>>> while Aristotle or Aristoteles while outlining either
>>>>> the "infinitely-divisible" or "infinitely-divided",
>>>>> picked "not atomism because no vacuums", as with regards
>>>>> to that electrons, protons, neutrons are elementary matter
>>>>> while photon is still the usual particle in terms of
>>>>> the quanta of energy, as to how energy is quantized,
>>>>> at the atomic scale, or as with regards to Avogadro.
>>>>>
>>>>> For some people, charge is primary, others, matter.
>>>>
>>>> I assume a certain mechanism, which belongs to a self-developed concept
>>>> called 'structured spacetime'.
>>>>
>>>> (
>>>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/
>>>> d/1Ur3_giuk2l439fxUa8QHX4wTDxBEaM6lOlgVUa0cFU4/edit?usp=sharing
>>>> )
>>>>
>>>> In this the electron is not a particle, but denotes a hypothetical
>>>> 'creation operator', which does not really exists, but if it would, it
>>>> would create a certain structure (in spacetime).
>>>>
>>>> As example I take waves on the surface of a pond.
>>>>
>>>> E.g. I could assume a little demon, that pull up the water surface and
>>>> wanders around over the pond.
>>>>
>>>> In the microscopic realm of elementry particles we have, of course, no
>>>> pond and no demon.
>>>>
>>>> But we could assume a thing would exist, if we see certain paterns
>>>> repeatedly.
>>>>
>>>> Those we give the name 'particle' (or 'quantum object' if you prefer
>>>> that).
>>>>
>>>> But such 'particles' violate simple requirements for material objects,
>>>> like being at some position at a certain time and existing continously.
>>>>
>>>> They would also violate several other principles and observations.
>>>>
>>>> For instance the particle concept violates 'Growing Earth', so called
>>>> pair production, the big bang theory and 'transmutation'.
>>>>
>>>> Best would be, to abandon real lasting particles altogether and replace
>>>> them by something else.
>>>>
>>>> This 'something else' could be 'timelike stable patterns'.
>>>>
>>>> The relation is not at all obvious and you certainly have not heard
>>>> about this before.
>>>>
>>>> But think about a standing 'rotation wave'.
>>>>
>>>> This is somehow similar to the path of a yo-yo.
>>>>
>>>> Then we could call the outer edge of this path 'potential' and the
>>>> inner
>>>> turning point 'mass'.
>>>>
>>>> The outer edge had in this scheme a geometric relation and is somehow
>>>> 'attracted' by the inner turning point, which has mass instead of
>>>> rotational velocity.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> TH
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>
>>> Aristotle has an idea like "un-moved mover", so it's generally
>>> figured that "physics is an open system", while any sort of
>>> usual classical ansaetze/gendanke, the setup/problem, is
>>> defined as either the initiation of an action, "closed",
>>> that there are no closed systems in physics as the entire
>>> system of physics is an open system.
>>>
>>> So, you can usually ascribe in systems of physics, the
>>> idea of mechanical advantage after "information advantage",
>>> that an arbitrarily small reasoning can result an arbitrarily
>>> large mechanical change, as with regards to systems in
>>> physics being open to actors, according to information.
>>>
>>>
>>> Then, the linear and rotational is a very excellent example
>>> of this, with regards to a usual sort of notion that
>>> "the lever" is the simplest machine and also represents
>>> any sort of mechanical interaction, even the usual
>>> equal/opposite of inelastic conditions, that it's always
>>> so that "the world turns", with regards to theories like
>>> those of DesCartes and Kelvin, of the vortex, as a necessary
>>> complement to the classical and linear (and partial and incomplete)
>>> of what is _not_ the "closed".
>>>
>> I like a certain mathematical principle called 'geometric algebra' and
>> assume, that nature does also behave like this on a fundamental level.
>>
>>
>> So, nature is kind of mathematical, if you regard geometry as math.
>>
>> Now the difficult trick is, to find the correct type of math, which
>> nature actually uses.
>>
>> I had bi-quaternions in mind previously, but think, that another type of
>> clifford algebras perform actually better.
>>
>> This system consists of indempotent and nilpotent operators and is
>> called 'dual quaternions'.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_quaternion
>>
>> This is actually a system of geometric algebra, which is in common use
>> in robotics (but hardly anywhere else).
>>
>> The benefit of this system is, that it allows relatively simple
>> translations and rotations of rigid bodies (in computers).
>>
>> 'Nilpotent' means, that such entities square to zero.
>>
>> This requirement for a description of nature was first used by Prof.
>> Peter Rowlands of Liverpool in his book 'From Zero to Infinity'.
>>
>> That book is very hard to read and also very expensive.
>>
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