Path: ...!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!feeds.news.ox.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: DB Cates Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: Re: Evolutionary creationism Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2025 22:30:41 -0500 Organization: University of Ediacara Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: References: <0rp7tjpot0kabd8injclb45gcckr5qq98e@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="46979"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:O9dqcYBy3Jl5y1wRYgW1gdvucvo= Return-Path: X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id C9EC222978C; Tue, 18 Mar 2025 23:30:53 -0400 (EDT) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 975ED229783 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2025 23:30:51 -0400 (EDT) by moderators.individual.net (Exim 4.98) for talk-origins@moderators.isc.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (envelope-from ) id 1tuk8i-0000000101D-1knt; Wed, 19 Mar 2025 04:30:44 +0100 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pmx.weretis.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19E623E89A for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2025 04:30:42 +0100 (CET) id 07CF73E863; Wed, 19 Mar 2025 04:30:42 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: X-User-ID: eJwNxsEBADEEBMCWCMspB6H/EnLzGoixtavBFIv9iKIaGPCwSiYm6r/cW302We52mE+6zil6It8Rsw== Content-Language: en-CA Bytes: 4916 Lines: 58 On 2025-03-18 12:16 p.m., Martin Harran wrote: > On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 09:26:24 -0500, DB Cates > wrote: > >> On 2025-03-18 3:13 a.m., Martin Harran wrote: >>> On Mon, 17 Mar 2025 16:31:30 -0500, DB Cates >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2025-03-17 8:31 a.m., Martin Harran wrote: >>>>> On Sun, 16 Mar 2025 08:42:49 -0500, RonO >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>> [giant snip] >>> >>> Thank you for that. I had to stop snipping replies to Ron because if >>> you snip anything at all, he claims you were running from his >>> arguments and reposts the same stuff so you end up with a post 2 or 3 >>> times longer than it needs to be :( >>> >>>>>> >>>>>> QUOTE: >>>>>> We believe that God acts purposefully in creation, just as he does in >>>>>> our lives, and that he continues to actively uphold and sustain creation. >>>>>> END QUOTE: >>>>> >>>>> And again, nothing there about God tweaking life the way Behe claims. >>>>> [another giant snip] >>>> >>>> Out of curiosity, what do you think the phrase "he continues to actively >>>> uphold and sustain creation." mean? I mean, in particular "continues" >>>> and "actively". >>> >>> I see this as a background thing, not a direct process. I have 5 >>> grown-up children, all with children of their own. I continue to >>> actively uphold and sustain them in whatever way they need but I do >>> not *interfere* in their lives. If, for example, they make decisions >>> that I don't agree with, I *might* offer an opinion if I think it will >>> be welcome but the decision is entirely theirs and I fully accept and >>> support whatever they do decide. The help and support I (and my wife) >>> give them is on request, not pushed on them, though they know it is >>> available when needed, and is given unconditionally. >>> >>> That's why I think the analogy of God as father is a particularly apt >>> one. >>> >>> >> I'm having difficulty reconciling that view with a purported omniscient >> entity. >> > > I'm struggling to grasp what difficulty you have, can you elaborate? > IMHO, asked for tweaking is still tweaking and an omniscient tweaker is likely doing miracles. -- -- Don Cates ("he's a cunning rascal" PN)