Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!news.quux.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt (Halting Problem) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2025 22:54:39 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 90 Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2025 05:54:40 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="563b23dd9c2bc684f5c34739223ae8df"; logging-data="2315395"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18Im0VndmEh7/ssutFUFtb+" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:h5fLVOwihuXkbXpE8Aih4XlUGRI= X-Antivirus: Norton (VPS 250409-4, 4/9/2025), Outbound message Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus-Status: Clean In-Reply-To: Bytes: 4909 On 4/9/2025 9:11 PM, dbush wrote: > On 4/9/2025 9:47 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 4/9/2025 3:56 PM, dbush wrote: >>> On 4/9/2025 4:35 PM, olcott wrote: >>>> On 4/9/2025 1:58 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>> Op 09.apr.2025 om 19:29 schreef olcott: >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/8/2025 10:31 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>> Op 08.apr.2025 om 17:13 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>> On 4/8/2025 2:45 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>>>> Op 08.apr.2025 om 06:33 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> typedef void (*ptr)(); >>>>>>>>>> int HHH(ptr P); >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> int DD() >>>>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>    int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); >>>>>>>>>>    if (Halt_Status) >>>>>>>>>>      HERE: goto HERE; >>>>>>>>>>    return Halt_Status; >>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> int main() >>>>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DD); >>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Simulating termination analyzer Principle* >>>>>>>>>> It is always correct for any simulating termination >>>>>>>>>> analyzer to stop simulating and reject any input that >>>>>>>>>> would otherwise prevent its own termination. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In this case there is nothing to prevent, because the finite >>>>>>>>> string specifies a program that halts. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> int DD() >>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>    int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); >>>>>>>>    if (Halt_Status) >>>>>>>>      HERE: goto HERE; >>>>>>>>    return Halt_Status; >>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This stuff is simply over-your-head. >>>>>>>> HHH(DD) meets the above: *Simulating termination analyzer >>>>>>>> Principle* >>>>>>>> Anyone with sufficient competence with the C programming language >>>>>>>> will understand this. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Everyone with a little bit of C knowledge understands that if HHH >>>>>>> returns with a value 0, then DDD halts. >>>>>> >>>>>> DDD CORRECTLY SIMULATED BY HHH >>>>>> NOT ANY OTHER DAMN DDD IN THE UNIVERSE NITWIT. >>>>>> >>>>> If HHH would correctly simulate DD (and the functions called by DD) >>>>> then the simulated HHH would return to DD and DD would halt. >>>> >>>> Simply over your level of technical competence. >>>> >>>>> But HHH failed to complete the simulation of the halting program, >>>> >>>> HHH is only required to report on the behavior of its >>>> own correct simulation (meaning the according to the >>>> semantics of the C programming language) and would be >>>> incorrect to report on any other behavior. >>> >>> Which means HHH has conflicting requirements, >> >> No, it just means that the ones that you have >> been saying are f-cked up and no-one noticed this before. >> >>  > because to perform a >>  > correct simulation of its input it cannot halt itself, and therefore >>  > can't report that. >> In other words you simply "don't believe in" the variant >> form of mathematical induction that HHH uses. > > No, because the form it uses is "changing the input". > > Changing the input is not allowed. I never changed the input.That you say that I have changed the input is intentional deception. -- Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer